Horse Racing Fantasy Community

Joey and Chris I can explain the weights. I think your weights on based on your excellent record in the past in prelims and in finals. I know if the race was scale weights in the final then you two would run 1st and 2nd. Maybe thats what your looking for. If this is the case then lets all finals be scale weights not one here and there. All or nothing.

Come Along 5 finals, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 1st
Ronwar Wins 3 finals, 5th, 3rd, 1st
Probably Late 3 finals, 1st, 1st, 1st
Mythbuster 1 final, 3rd
Brugal 3 finals, 1st, 1st, 1st
Sizzle 4 finals, 5th, 1st, 1st, 2nd

Looking at this anybody can see Come Along is a monster in the finals and has the most experience and proven itself so of course it gets top weight.

Probably Late who also proven winner and quartley winner is 2nd choice in the final.
Brutal is also proven winner but hasn't faced tough horses in the past either until this tourney.
Sizzle is proven it can win sometimes.
Ronwar Wins did break through last tourney beating Playball but I still believe Playball is much the better horse.
Mythbuster you cant say much about this horse, but its good the trainer the sponsered this event got one horse in.

Sucks been top weight when you were not even top 2 in the leaderboard doesnt it Jay.
I had this with wonderstrike.
By the way this is an awesome final. Lots of quality horses. Good luck to all

I get it. That was me that gave you top weight when you were only 3rd on leaderboard. The way I saw it, sorry. And in my handicapping days, I never even looked at leaderboard to assign weights. This case is differnt. This is a case where the handicapper ADMITS he made a mistake. Doesn't matter at all to me where I finished on leader board. The fact is, going by numbers, Bhdcwt & I got royaly screwed in this tourny. And also, Steve, if this had been a tourney with a 63,000 point purse instead of close to a million point purse, I wouldn't have even said anything.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Jaycat he didn't admit to doing this race wrong. Follow the conversations in his page, he was talking about the first race he handicapped. By the way I'm in that one too and I dont think I going to win that either. So maybe I should start objected to everyrace.

Jaycat I said you did a good job handicapping but even you make mistakes. I not saying your making mistakes, I'm saying you make a judgement call on who carrys what. If not then how did Dbacks win that final? Your theory is if a upset occurs then the handicapper caused the wrong horse to win. Well I doubt thats your theory. Every handicapper does things differently. I remember reading a while back somebody said if a horse has won finals before they get extra weight. So maybe thats what happened here. The proven best have to prove it again with more weight.

Flyingcat, you know lot of your races you capped i would question, i won't because there's a magic wand that will keep saving you.

sundown

"RaRic rnI am sorry, trust me there will be more angry comments, put please relize these were the first two I have ever done. I wanted to give it a try so I jumped in with no instruction. Since then, I have reached out to senior community members for help and they taught me what I did wrong. Again, im sorry everybody and will not be attempting anymore until I am possitive I can do the job.n. End quote.

Sounds to me like he was talking about both to me, JBC. Here's what my theory is and I hate to brag, but I think it's a dandy one. It goes; When the handicapper admits he made a mistake, chances are he's right.

All due respect JBC, but if you got top weight in this torney (which you deserve, by the way) you would be screaming bloody murder. AND YOU KNOW IT!

out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

But if you can will you tell me how I can get that magic wand to bring my win percentage over 11.5? What magic wand do you speak of, Sundown?

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Major points this tournament. ( not a small 100k total prize check)
All so big time tournaments coming up.

If I had a horse in this tournament or in up coming tournaments in which 1 million points are on offer , i don`t want my horse handicapped by a new handicapper/ inexperienced handicapper.

New handicappers should be limited to which finials they are allowed to handicapped. Major points , big dollars are on the line , only a hand full of selected handicappers should be allowed to handicap selected major finials.

Jay keep handicapping - don`t worrie about what a select few haft to say - the communality have kept you handicapping this long and votes are a direct result of this. You are the only handicapper who has a pro badge that counts a lot in my book.

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Having Fun :o)

I respect you and all of that but I believe you're wrong here. And if you will look at this objectivly you will see it too. Here are the average SR's for these horses on fast track in this tourney;

Come Along----------111.65
Ronwar Wins--------124.96
Probably Late-------116
Mythbuster----------111.16
Brugal----------------126.6
Sizzle-----------------124.95

Now, Just on these figures alone, try and justify Come Along being top weight.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Like it, love it, or hate it the weights should have run something like this;

Come Along----------117
Ronwar Wins--------122
Probably Late-------118
Mythbuster----------116
Brugal----------------123
Sizzle-----------------120

Thanks Grant. Your sentiment means a lot to me.

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Jay I did not mean malice by what I said was merely pointing to a previous race I had top weight in. Not even aimed at you, more at the handicapping system.

But saying that its better than the computer handicapping

Didn't I just tell you in the handicapper page that the handicapper probably dropped the low sr in everybody race. There were 3 prelims and the handicapper probably used the top 2 times to elimated the poor one. They probably added weight to yours since it kicks ass in finals. Everybody handicaps differently and this kind of handicapping I have done the before.

If everybody handicapped like you described above and I say that can be a way to do it, then why do I dislike almost every handicapped race I'm in. Thats because everybody has there own system of doing things.

If was a simple as Jaycat says it is, why cant Puddles program the computer to add up all prelims and divide that by the number run and then set weights to the best sr gets top weight. Well I think more goes into it than that, past performances do play a part in everything. This handicapper may be the first to challenge this theory, the first to look past the prelims and look at the whole picture.

I don`t think racing stewards should be in the game.
Tell me what do they do or have done for the community I can name one what has done the job they have requested to do. The rest I think they applied for the job to make there profile look good.

Racing stewards you requested to do the job for the community.
You took on the role to do this , badgers were not given away in the keno draw last week. Your role you requested to do was to look at each and every finial - that is what you signed up to do.

Each day you look at finials and you allow hack jobs (what some people call it) run - but you requested to look over finials and make sure they are done correctly.

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Having Fun :o)

Gosh I know that, Steve. I didn't read any malice at all in your post. There was none in mine either. Sometimes it's hard to read inflections and I think thats why a lot of arguements start in here. Lots of misunderstanding going on.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Jaycat lets not even have this race. I would be happy to divide the whole pot by 6 players.

Each player gets 161,066 points......I will take that. I doubled my investment.

if you sandbag every tournament you should get weights according to sandbag SRs and NOT by results of past sandbagged but triumphant tournaments?! So, handicapper should overlook past Finals results and strictly look at current tournament results? So, my horse or Ron's horse should be top weight and we should disregard quarterly points winners, hall of famers, etc...? Trying to figure this out. I mean you want to be quarterly winner AND carry less weight than non-winners? Explain please. Unless, you're saying my horse is better or Ron's horse is better than Probably Late. We're going to find out but trying to understand how this Final should be capped based on your argument...And GO!

;)

"I got lucky in the shed!"
--- Stable Holler ---

The handicapper didn't handicap this race as carefully and with as much detail as you descibe. He ADMITTED he made a mistake and didn't know what he was doing.

AS for the chart i presented, that was only ONE example of why i thought this race was handicapped in the most ludicrous fashion. But ok, I give up, you're right. I see it now. Thank you for setting me straight.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

I just put a 100,000 bet on your horse. Yes I have confidence in him.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Jaycat nobody every wins these discussion, theres to much passion involved. As we know where not racing for peanuts.

Everybody is usually correct in what they think there saying.

Sorry if I came off strong again Jaycat.

But I willing to take 1/6 of the pot if this was lets make a deal horse game show! LOL

I'd be willing to drop out now just for my 80k entry fee.

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Last time some one complained about a finial
CROSS ME HERE TOURNAMENT one of the biggest upsets in history happen.
http://www.horseracegame.com/community/tournament-detail/250334

magic must have happen in that race , everything behind the winner had massive energy left over.

I no where to place my bets.

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Having Fun :o)

Scale Weight for big tourneys.
The computer doesn't have to do it, every handicapper just agree to do it.

Well, thank you for showing that much confidence in my horse. It would benefit you more if she wins but that would only be just. Look, I understand your argument but it doesn't tell the whole tale. You have to look at past results in bigger tournaments. I understand you don't agree with the weight your horse received. However, I don't think my horse should be top weight in a tourney against Probably Late or your horse...YET! Brugal has shown she has some talent but I've been stepping her up each time i enter her in a tourney. I don't necessarily look to see which top horse(s) are entered but I expect to face better horses as the entry fees increase. If my horse runs well and makes it close with Probably Late then I expect Brugal to pick up some weight in her future Finals. But that hasn't been established...YET!

The reason we're debating this Final is because of one reason...A NEWBIE HANDICAPPER WAS ASSIGNED THIS RACE WRONGFULLY! How can one of the first Finals a newb caps be a million dollar Final?! That's crazy! We wouldn't be having this discussion if this race was capped by Gary Lim, General, uhhh...who else? I don't even know the good cappers from the bad...but I know a rookie! That was a bad assignment.

So, Jay, nothing against you or your horse or any other trainer/horse. I'm just looking forward to this race and what the result will tell me about my horse AND the other great horses in this Final. There are other beasts out there as well, you know!

;)

"I got lucky in the shed!"
--- Stable Holler ---

I remember that tourny soooooooo well. lol.
Hmmmm, and Dusty's a Beatles fan too......

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

Jay
Magic?
some African voodoo special spells were at work
the most odd finial I ever raced in.
magic , magic , all horses did not run at all.
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Having Fun :o)

Did I just leave out JB as a good capper? OMG! LOL! Purely unintentional, JB! Hehehe...just messing with you and trying to lighten it up around here. DAMN, I'm tense!

P.S. We're not dividing any pot in this Final! Dream on it, wake up and move on! It ain't happening!

;)

"I got lucky in the shed!"
--- Stable Holler ---

I pretty much agree with your whole post. I just don't know how Come Along has gotten this rep for being a superhorse. Brugal himself has won more points from tournament wins than Come Along has. But it's all wonderful. I'm done complaining. It's out of my system now.

Joey

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

The handicapper handicapped this race because all the handicappers are in this race. HAHA

Hey Jaycat you better not stop handicapping, we need you. You enjoy it and we enjoy you. To bad the pay system cant work correctly and pay for work well done.

If you noticed, I haven't made a bet yet. I need to see how many bets I can take before I place mine. One suggestion: if you think you're pretty and bet against my horse, take a look in the mirror now because you won't look so pretty after the race! Hehehehe...I'm representin' for Team916 since we share the same area code! Man, this is exciting!

Don't worry, fans, I already thought up excuses! LOL! I put front bandages on Brugal...did you notice them? No? OK.

;)

"I got lucky in the shed!"
--- Stable Holler ---

Ok, first I need to say to everyone involved I am very sorry that I caused all this trouble. I just used the whole form, mostly the previous final results to choose who I thought was best.
I didnt know that you were only supposed to use the prelims in the current tourny.
I can assure all of you that it wont happen again, I hope all that are upset understand there was no ill will intended. Again im sorry and best of luck to everyone in this and any future races.

JTW

1 million point tournament.
500k + 1st price.
Quarterly reward bonus of 1 million points could be decided on the result of the finial.

lol?
I`m glad i haven't got anything racing in hear.
god help me.
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Having Fun :o)

Don't take it personal Jimmie. A bunch of us have made a big deal out of minor issues in the past. Not to say this was minor. This tourney shouldn't have been one of your first to handicap. You'll get better and we'll STILL beech and moan about something else. So, don't get discouraged. It's a learning process...just don't ever cap any races my horses are in! Hahahaha...c'mon Jimmie, just a joke. (Never) Seriously, just playing. (You'll remember my name, right?) hahahahaha! I kid!

;)

"I got lucky in the shed!"
--- Stable Holler ---

There aren't any rules for handicapping and dont be sorry for using all the data to judge who's the best horse. But if thats how you handicapped this race and the others then thats fine with me. We need all types of handicappers with different variations to see what works. I might add we dont know what is the best way yet after months of these races.

bob Marley sings it best
could you be loved lol?

fight one day love the next day.

hope for special African spells to be at work in the finial.

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Having Fun :o)

My whole bitch in this is that if you handicap based off of this tournament, only no way you come up with these weights. This is the way I handicap my races mainly because IMO recent form is far more important than PAST form. I can see how capping complete past performances can lead to these weights. All that being said, I think Probably Late is the best horse in this race, and if he runs his race (no clunker) and doesn't have traffic trouble he will win this race by 2 lengths, and I will be very disappointed if he doesn't win. Thats why I put 100k on him in challenge buddy ;)

Im being serious here so dont be upset.

If you go only by the prelims for this tourny then what about the people who win the first prelim by daylight and then because there already in all the sudden the next race is a last by many? How do you account for that if you only look at the current tourny prelims?

JTW

I can see what you are saying, horses in real life, and in this game can change form from tournament to tournament, and race to race, and Especially important in this case age. If your going to use complete past performances IMO you should only use it for that horses current age, and if you really want to get in depth, only cap distances similar to what they run in current tournament. As I've always said everyone looks at these things differently. But back to the age thing, for a few of the horses in this race this was there 1st 3 year old tournament, and IMO this should have been the only prelims looked at. Anyway you get a batter grasp of horses current form by looking at current tournament prelims IMHO

thanks for the reply, i was just asking and your points make sense. It just seems as if no matter how you do it someone will be upset. Is that the case?

JTW

I agree with everyone.

Everyone has their own way of handicapping. IMHO this handicapper is not totally off base, although I would have handicapped it differently.

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May they all come home safely!!!

To be honest I wish I hadnt done it at all.............but i did so I cant go back. I really can see points in everyone opinion and have relized it is way more difficult then i firdt thought.

JTW

Don't worry Jimmie, if one of your high weights win then all is forgiven and you did a perfect job! Just make sure you come back to this post and exclaim how you "nailed it!"

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May they all come home safely!!!

i like the idea of throwing out the clunker in a multiple prelim situation .....sometimes that straight up average gives away too much weight to the horses that surprise us in the finals ....also it negates the slight differences the different race distances can produce ...

Jimmie, despite my posts I do not have any beef against you. You just started and made a few honest mistakes, but show a true eagerness to learn and do better. And I'm positive that with your spirit, you will.

No, my beef is against HRF not allowing the computer to reassign these weights. I'm not a big fan of changing handicappers weights. But when the handicapper comes out and admits that there were Honest mistakes made, then the computer needs to redo.

Joey

JB, thanks for the kind words. Very much appreciated!

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~

I read two of your posts and want to say, I agree with you 100%. Right on target. Jaycat, you know your stuff, so keep at it.
Vas, someone once said that if you gelded 90% of all male thoroughbreds, you probably wouldn't have made too many mistakes.
If they did ever decide to use scale weights, I think They'd be closer to being right most of the time, (maybe 90%) as opposed to the way it is now. Oh, the 90% figure is probably way off. Just to get my point across. There are too many ways that each handicapper is going about how to assign fair weights. Scale weights would be more consistent.
My gut feeling is that eventually we'll go back to computer handicapping. It just needs to be re-programmed. And by a team of programmers that know how to read, interpretate and evaluate the contents of The Daily Racing Form. I've stated this before. Many times.

We have received a couple of emails pertaining to this race and we're even thinking about letting the computer run the final. If we even wanted to do that, it requires a programmer to actually get into and modify the code. The team has been working 6 days a week for the last 3 weeks. As a gesture, they were given a 3-day weekend - Saturday, Sunday and Monday. It's already Saturday where our team is located. The race runs in less than a day and we're going to try to get hold of one of the developers to run the race as a computer-handicapped race. They may or may not be reachable in time. If they were reachable, we would want the feedback of at least 5 of the trainers in the race who will agree to have the computer run it. Even if we get 5 of the people to vote that it's okay to run it this way, we still cannot guarantee that it will be run by the computer.

On the lighter side, knowing the way our computer handicaps the weights, who knows how it would end up anyway!

We suggest that jimmiethewheel takes a break from the handicapping program and maybe gets some advice from some of the other senior players. Jimmie, if you handicap one more race and the negative votes outweight the positive votes, you will suspended and thrown out of the program.

I understand and you have to do what is right. I apologize to HRF, the staff, and everyone affected. I didnt mean for this to happen. Dont worry i wont be doing any more races, in fact im going to step away from the game. Thanks everyone who supported me and i wish the very best to everyone in the future

JTW

mommalee841 says " you handicap one more race and the negative votes outweight the positive votes, you will suspended and thrown out of the program."

Well if is the case then throw me off the program. Votes mean crap most of the time. The link to my handicap page. I have more negative than postive. By your theory I suck at handicapping. I believe this policy stinks and needs to be addressed. But rules are rules. So what you waiting for?

http://www.horseracegame.com/community/handicapper/54628

I am voting NO to computer handicapped race. Been screwed weeks ago on by the computer. Was #2 seed and finish 5th in the final. Should have been 1st or 2nd in the final.

Jimmy deserves a YES vote for trying.

mommalee841 you should be ashamed of yourself.

My votes is for Jimmy. He did no worse than we see every damn day! No one here is freaking expert handicapper, regardless of how great people tell us we are.

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May they all come home safely!!!

That's that. Thanks for trying, HRF. And may the best horse win.

~~ Ran out of meds ??? Why not enter some reds ??? ~~