Horse Racing Fantasy Community

TO CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES,
SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU,
AND TO HERE THE LAMENTATION OF THEIR WOMEN.

Conan the Barbarian (1982)

...and I even misspelled "hear"

Its working.

REAL LIFE sinario handicappers have large amounts of data to look at plus big differences in performance under what weights in 1 off races...

HRF handicappers have it easy but refuse to see it..
We here have a group of horses that race each other within a tournament.. this group never changes.. come final time we still have the same horses... we just eliminated some via the making final process..
So end result we have around 8 horses that raced each other over 3 or so prelims under A SET WEIGHT depending sex and age..

The handicapper must now assign WEIGHT ADJUSTMENTS to these set weights from prelims..
This gives every horse a little extra hope or a little extra weight..

end result we have 8 horses that now are a little better matched by weight adjustment...
THIS is where problems happen..
3yr olds.. females carry 121///males 126..
male horses carry 5 pound more in prelims..
now what if a handicaper looks and says mmmmmmm ok this FEMALE is best horse and that male is 2nd best... so handicapper gives female top weight at 120 and male 2nd top weight at 118..

WHAT JUST HAPPENED?
MALE went from 126 to 118 (drop of 8)
Female went from 121 to 120 (drop of 1 pound)
END RESULT... MALE NOW HAS 7 POUND ADVANTAGE over the female!!!

This cannot happen please guys..it is so wrong... handicappers must add or deduct a set figure from prelim weight carried.. it is to easy...

if when handicapping a 3yr old final the max weight allowed is 123 then simple..we deduct 3 from all prelim weights first to keep same seperation...we now do our deductions on performance and get a final sinario that has every horses + or - 1 to 4 pounds....from prelim weights..

"Sir Slavedave Stables"
""" We make Donkeys fly"""

Well the art of sandbagging prelims to achieve a lower weight is working for some. How do I know this? When I handicap races I can tell whos plays around once they get in and then post crappy races to pull upsets in final races. I think Sundown said this would happen and Puddles said it would never happen. But everybody knows points mean everything and fantasy cash means nothing. So people will do what they have to and run there horses poorly to achieve advantage in the final race. I haven't tried this myself as you all know when I win a final its a miracle.

slavey is absoulutely 100% correct. The biggest problem with this handicapping is people assigning top wieght to certain horses who they think are the best but forget to see what wieght they carried in the prelims....In a certain tournie my horse qualified in the final position not winning a race and getting smashed by the top 3 contenders yet my horse had no wieght release from the 3 clear favourites and actually gained 1p to one of them ...This certain person does this everytime he handicapps..He is a good person but needs to relise that he is making constant mistakes when handicapping. I dread seeing this persons name handicapping a race that my horse is in ..... :) smile

BOTTOM LINE...... WHEN GIVING WIEGHT RELEASE TO HORSES, YOU MUST GO BY THE PRELIM WIEGHTS THAT THESE HORSES CARRIED. IT IS SO EASY TO SEE, YET PEOPLE DONT DO IT.... aND THESE PEOPLE HAVE ALL THE POSITIVE VOTES!!! WHY???? I TELL YOU WHY BECASUE THE PEOPLE VOTING DONT HAVE A CLUE...

AGAIN SLAVEY IS RIGHT !! THESE PEOPLE HAVE IT EASY.....

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME RULES STAMPED OUT FOR THIS PART OF THE GAME...OR THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PROBLEMS.....

I disagree with both Dave and Red: The prelims are set weight or wfa and the final is a 'restricted Handicap' its a new ball park: The apples are now an orange. One valid argument you could promote is the one where if your horse is nominated for and weights have been issued for a handicap race then any win or placing in a wfa or set weights race after the weights are issued does not attract a re handicap.
Females have no weight concessions in open or restricted handicaps period. If your 3yo female wins all three prelims with a weight concession over the males including in any grade races then she already has a concession in only being able to be given 123 in the final! If any or all of those prelim wins were in a graded race then that concession is magnified. One would be a fool to keep and race any male bred.
The biggest problem with the old system was the females were usually at huge advantage in the finals courtesy of their sex. For handicappers to make adjustments for age or sex in a handicap race is actually negligence. The only criteria to be considered is prelims performance and in what circumstances, relative to the performances of the rest of the final contenders, be they male or female.

6 prelim tourney

Female 119 wins 3 races and post avg sr 115
Male 122 wins 3 races and post avg sr 115

What is the female and male weight in the final?

emerson how do you know if a new zealander has been in your house????

your leg of lamb will have love bites all over it...... LMFAO really really loud.

For all you americans who dont understand this joke its all good its a aussie / kiwi thing........

I know you cant answer that question I asked you because you would look silly and it would make your post you made very silly. If you say they both should carry 122lbs. I would say the female achieved sr115 at 119lbs and your saying the female at 122lbs would run the same at a higher weight? I dont think thats every going to happen, with that logic. Are you using Puddles simple math to handicap races emerson?

i have to agrre with jb cri baby

I cant believe you edit your post, haha. Well I found out cry babys are the ones who tell the truth that nobody likes to here, so I welcome the cry baby roll, lol. Emerson your not allowed in forums nomore. You post some silly stuff and your a handicapper and run away to hide. Unexpectable!

yeah i edited my post , to much technicality involved with it... keep it simple...

I have heard folks say in the month or so ive been here that female vs male makes no
difference in HRF. In real racing it makes all the difference - otherwise a female running
big in a race the the Kentucky Derby would not be such a headline story.

In HRF it seems the sexes have been seperated but they neednt be. No reason in the
world to have set weight descrepencies in the prelims - make em all weight for age and
throw out the sexes all together. No advantage for females in the prelims .. no percieved
advanage for males in the final (based on the handicappers weight adjustments).

Seems simple.

Sam

I am actually in and but you are correct I am an idiot and I don't know anything about handicapping! I could only handicap your scenario professionally on the info you put up if the two horse in question were the only horses in the final and you provided the details of the prelims each won.
Red Who was the winning jockey in the 2002 Irish Greyhound derby? and how can you tell an Australian in a crowded bar? He's the one who goes up to the bar with a piece of tarmac and asks the barman if he can have one for the road.

Or as' Vasso' put it, "Emo"! Does that mean you have black hair and pale skin, and are a bit 'sensitive'??!! Poor little fella!! :P LOL
BTW Not a bad effort on the joke Em, but Red's was better! LMAO
OOOH i know so many Kiwi jokes but the ones i want to say would probably get censored!!! The rest are a bit lame. Or is that LAAAAAMB???!!! LOL ;))
Regards, Wombat.
"Eats,Roots,Shoots and Leaves":)

Now that we have restrictions to seperate the horses by ability, WHY HANDICAP AT ALL!!!! Seems a no-brainer to me, do away with handicapping. The restrictions put everything on a level playing field so there is no longer a need for handicapping. Why do we even have scale weights, is it written into the horses programming that females are weaker than males or that older horses are stronger than younger? If not then that is bogus too, because all these horses are actually just computer programs! Anyway, just my two cents worth.

I believe that the restricted tournament finals are not handicapped. Only the general tournament finals will be handicapped.

If I'm wrong please correct me. I know the blues won't be handicapped, but not sure about the reds.