Horse Racing Fantasy Community

My horse is a PN 126, record before tourney Starts 12, Wins 1, Place 0, Show 2, Fourth 4........I would have retired this horse it was a NN with that record. I suprised it did something finally.

But on the same note I had my 128 blown away today in a ungraded race. The winner post and several posted in the 120's. Mine posted a Sr 90's. Umm must be facing monster in this ungraded tourney.

Its easier to win middle to big tourneys. Anything over 40,000pts for the winner I would consider bigger than a little tourney. I have never one a little tourney ever!!! I believe the best horses are in the little tourneys, they must be. I cant win any of those tourneys. LOL

There are 5x more horses now and with quantity has come some quality . This is why we have red restricted and now new blue restricted tournaments. Even with this said there are some lucky players with some very good young horses that are winning a lot.

Every day there are 120plus SR horses and higher being breed . I am look forward to more Blue restricted tournaments but I am also very excited to watch the best of the best evolve . There are several 145 plus 2 year old monsters just getting started and look forward to seeing them go all the way to the shed !!!!!

I dont know about that 145. (lol) I am trying to get the Flyingdaaka to the shed. The first 126.4 to the shed!

Mojok, while that low entering does happen, we all know that, it isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. Flyingdaaka enters his low SR horses in such events, and has been competitive. In the last month, Flyingdaaka has even gotten into finals with birth SR horses of 103.7 and 105.6. A 108.3 recently won a tournament. So it still can be done, you just have to pick your spots.
Flyingdaaka was strongly on your side. But as a trainer recently explained to him "I put money into the game so I will play it the way I want. Nobody in here will ever make me change the way I play." That trainer has a point. Who is Flyingdaaka or anyone else to tell him his business ??? If you want such low entering to stop, it is not up to the players to police it. HRF is atleast attempting to stop it by creating birth SR tournaments, which is a great idea.
Bottom line, you will always see trainers lacking confidence entering their horses well below where they should be, but it can't be stopped. The weights are not having the effect Flyingdaaka had originally hoped.
Your last paragraph is on target.

~~ The Flyingdaaka stable: Low SR horses only ~~

I don't mean to make it sound like everyone is the bad guy for doing this; on the contrary, it has become neccessary, if you want to survive. And I don't mean to say that everyone but me does it.

Here is one of mine, a first time starter that I entered low because I have little confidence these days that a horse has courage until i see it on the track.

You Follow Me: http://www.horseracegame.com/community/trainer-tournament/228933/you-fol...

Total Investment: 95 cents. My winner averaged 123.175 in the four races.

I entered the Twist Off, and used a 130 SR horse, simply because 1) I wanted to run her at a distance, 2) first time on dirt at a distance, and 3) nothing else for her to enter where he would stand a chance. She won 2 of 3 prelims and forgot how to run in the finals. This seems to happen to me alot. I may have solved this problem now in training by changing the horses performance to "run to true abilities". A simple thing like that showed me that she has consistency issues and runs out of steam at a distance. That notwithstanding, sometimes it is tough to be honorable and run your best horses in big tourneys when they have not proven themselves capable of winning little ones. I am opposed to a 130 or above horse running in a 30,000 point tourney, but when they can't win there, I don't want to piss away my money in a big tourney where they will get blown away. The competition is tougher than ever here, and I have heard alot of people gripe about going 4-4 in prelims only to go to the finals and not hit the board. We all want to win, and sometimes you do have to lower your moral standards and enter the cheap races. I dont want to retire a horse that has some abilities, as luck should sway my way once in awhile and get theses horses a win. I am sure most everyone has a 120 that can't hit 110 in tourneys, and I have several of them. The SR's are somewhat misleading, and I know that puddles has spoken of eliminating them, but kept them because players like them. They are a FAIR gauge, but you really don't know what you have till you do a tourney.
Beefy

Why is everybody trying to justify why, when, or where they place their horses?
There is no need for anybody to explain anything.
Anybody can enter any horse at any time in any tournament that the horse qualifies for.

Joey

I'll be serious for once, so please read this through before you blow it off.
From what I've seen in the Forum, the real problem is a lack of spots to stick horses. The other day I was browsing the upcoming tourneys and saw 5 tourneys on synthetic all at 8f. Same age group, roughly the same fees and as we all know a lot of tourneys get cancelled. A lot of this is due to race duplication and the available runners get spread thin.

HRF gives us a lot of tools and control in this game, but the problem is we don't use them effectively. I think we should have a committee of players to write, request, vote and monitor the General Tournaments.
Please hear me out on this!

I know that some player's hands are full with handicapping duties, but there are enough of us who are on here everyday to accomplish this.
We would need about 15-20 players with each person responsible for a specific area, like distance, surface , age, etc.

The thing is we need some order to the Generals and we already have the request and voting system ,all we have to do is take charge of it.
It will not interfere with the community at large's request, all the commitee will do is insure we have a variety of levels and conditions.

We can have a specific blog for the committee. So we all know what's going on. It wouldn't be an official HRF thing, but it is our community
and we can take charge of this situation.

With the Blues and the community taking charge of organizing the Generals, I think we can make this great game even greater.

What say you? For or Against?
A lot of my ideas are stupid, but I think this one has potential.
If a major majority of the regulars are for this , then we can work out the details later as a team.

Obviously. You can't look at a single day's results without seeing that.

There is one other thing that doesn't quite add up. The more horses=more quality thing. More horses should equal more available tournaments to sign them up in. You would think the demographic itself wouldn't change. If, a year ago, only 20% of horses were the type that could run in the 120-130 range, and 10% could hit 130+ (and I am just using these numbers as examples) then it should be the same now.

There should be plenty of lower-class tourmaments and enough higher-class ones to satisfy those with the horses that can succeed in them. But I am thinking that today, a much larger % of horses can run in the 120-130 range. And hitting 130+ is something that seems to happen daily, and several times a day, at that. And so the average HRF horse is better than it used to be. If so, this isn't normal statistical growth, it must result from something being tinkered with in the breeding program. Any thoughts on that?

I know some of you have never had horses that can run that fast. I think I have had maybe five out of close to 200 that could hit the 120-130 range.

I should have started my own thread, but as I was replying to your original post, I had a brain fart.
So I let 'er rip. LOL
One shouldn't try to hold those things in.

Nothing has changed in the breeding program. The more horses breed the more good horses we have . Simple math. A lot of players do not keep the low rated horses . We are breeding 4x as many horses now then we were last year. if you breed hundreds of horses (plus vet visits) in a day you going to see 120's and 130's .

That is why we have new types of tournaments

a lot of player dont have horses below 120 sr there i said it .......

IMHO I think the dynamics of barns have changed. Once upon a time 115 SR horse was solid. These days some barns don't keep anything under 120. Some Barns have an average speed ratings in the 125s. It would be very tough to impossible to compete with these barns on a regular bases unless you have some of these 120+ horses being bred everyday. I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet the average speed rating for barns have stepped up big time. If the lower racing horses were 90 -105 before, its 115 now. Unless you're like daaka and pick your spot carefully its a tough road.

One thing I think that would help the separation of higher tier horses from lower tier horses is the make-up of the tournaments. The way it is currently constructed, players can get just about the same benefits from racing lower tier. This is what I mean - If you think you have a decent horse a trainer looks for multiple race tournaments; they look for a graded race or two and a decent purse. On some occasions the purse is secondary. The issue I see is they can find this in a 2000 point event. Some of the cheaper events are 4 race tournaments and some bigger point ones are only 3. If the cheaper tournaments had a max 1 or 2 races and no graded races, and was no fee, I think there would be less of the top horses in those tournaments, simply because most of the benefits would be sucked out. If the larger tournaments where the only ones that had grade1 and grade2 races with 4, 5 and 6 prelims I think the higher SR horses would go there to compete for all the extras like quarterly rewards, breeding shed etc. I guess my next question is does the higher speed rated horses currently show up for 1 race tournaments? If so, forget everything I just said :) My guess is if they do, it wouldn't be too often.

~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!

Vas, I was responding to Jay when I said "obviously", not to your post.

So,

1) simple math dictates that the more horses bred, the more talented the pool should get. A lot more 120s and 130s should be seen. Which is why all touraments aside for the blues are full of horses that run in that range, whether it is a tournament that cost you $14 or $0.25 to enter.

2) therefore, still not worth keeping sub-100 horses, unless you're going to start publishing many, many blue R tournaments for sub 100 horses. Publish a dozen of these a week.

3) it's also not worth keeping horses in the 100-120 range, because you're not likely to win with them, either. Unless there are lots of Blue R tournaments for them, too.

4) but if you create enough blue Rs for 2) and 3) above, there won't be enough tournaments for everyone's 120s-150s, will there. That's where we are at now, isn't it?

Please tell me there is some kind of 'cap' figured into the breeding. We have plenty of horses with the 'birth' SR of 140+. Apparently Wells Fargo is a 150-something. There aren't going to be 160s and 170s, are there? There shouldn't even be 150s. And if you want it to be realistic, only about two or three 140s should be bred, for maybe every 40 or 50 thousand game horses bred.

A 140 is Secretariat or Man O' War. And a 150 is just a comic book character, or a teenager playing Madden and editing the rosters so his QB has all 100s in every field. It is not realism.

We do not cap the program . There are no pre-set numbers for BSR. It is a math formula in conjunction with a hot pair and luck. I have not seen any160BSR horses . We have breed 4 horses over 150 since the start of the game and 17 or so horses over 140.

Now consider this . We have signed up over 140,000 players since the trainer game came out . Every player gets a free horse . This does not include the ones the players buy . Hundreds of thousands of horses have been breed .

I would have to think someday there will be 160 BSR horse . If everything lines up right for the breeder then it will happen. It just has not happened yet !

I agree with you about picking your spots. That is what I've always tried to do carefully. But it seems that if you win with a 104 these days, then you picked your spot well plus there was a great deal of luck involved. Luck that no one dropped their 130 in there.

I won with a 104 about a month back. Just about fell out of my chair.

If there have been four 150sr and 17 140sr out of that many players, I guess the number isn't really that high then. Considering some individuals have bred hundreds.

21/140000, that is if each player had bred only one horse, means only .00015 of horses that are 140+.

But in reality the number of horses actually bred have got to be getting close to 500,000 or so, which makes the 140+ a miniscule fraction.

will likely enter cheap tournaments because they don't have enough points to enter the more expensive ones. That's how I managed before I was a mentor and had more points to gamble.
Therefore, there is always going to be a good chance that 120+ horses show up in cheap general tournaments. Just one factor, not trying to imply that it's all the fault of us non-vips.

What's the ratio of VIPs to non-VIPs in the game, anyway? Anybody know?

Estimated odds of breeding assuming 500k horses have been bred:

SR birth horses above 120: 6.0-7.5 % that means 30000-37500 bred
SR birth horses above 125: 2.0-2.5 % that means 10000-12500 bred
SR birth horses above 130: 0.5-1.0 % that means 2500-5000 bred
SR birth horses above 140: 21 out of 500,000 bred

Now, how many remain in the game ???? This where it gets tough. So many probably have been lost due to players quitting the game. Others were voluntarily retired. Flyingdaaka will estimate 10% still exist, maybe more for the higher SR horses bred

SR birth horses remaining in game above 120: 3000-3750
SR birth horses remaining in game above 125: 1000-1250
SR birth horses remaining in game above 130: 250-500
SR birth horses remaining in game above 140: ????????

These are estimates.

~~ The Flyingdaaka stable: Low SR horses only ~~

4 horse with birth sr over 150????, we talking those special breeds also, we have to the 140+ #of 17 hmmm i think closer to 10... those 150's has to include special breeds.

sundown

....and how many of those actually run to their birth speed rating? Perhaps you can cut those numbers down even further.

~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!

As Puddles has said before, the birth SR is simply an estimate of what a horse may be capable of. I had a horse that won only a single race in his career. He was born a 114 SR (Or so) and ran a 133 at 12 furlongs, beating two or three really good horses in the process. It seems as far as the SR goes, some horses seem to be able to navigate through the field like a tardy commuter, weaving in and out of traffic, and doing what they have to do to win. Those horses GET IT, and usually achieve or surpass their birth SR. Conversely, other horses run around the track like they are in the Macy's Day parade, waving to their friends in the stands, and really have no clue, or desire, to actually win the race. It could be the lack of courage that factors in more than people realize.
I do have to say that it is nice to join a thread where everyone is putting their collective heads together for the betterment of the game, as opposed to some threads that turn into a volley of jokes, thereby missing the original point entirely. There are a lot of sharp, astute players out there, and because of their input, and HRF's willingness to listen, this game really only stands to get better.
Beefy

I thought birth SR didn't matter?
Can someone please make up my mind?

Its only matters if you get a good PR with it. SR 145.2 PR added

Tournament Racing Consistency : Don`t bet the farm on this horse when you think he`s ready to win. He has a slight consistency problem. He may find himself from time to time throwing in some clunkers. Expect more good races than bad.

Peak age : This horse`s peak age is at 3.8 years old.

Jockey Instructions Rating : This horse has an average response rating to jockey instructions. Different distances might impact how jockey instructions interpreted.

Break Speed From The Game :This horse`s Break Speed is average. Depending upon his running style and the race conditions as well as his stamina, this may or may not be a disadvantage.

Top Speed :This horse has average Top Speed. Whether this hurts this horse depends on his Break Speed, Early Speed and Stamina. There are a lot of champion horses with average Top Speed because they excelled in other areas. Horses with average top speed tend to conserve energy better, which might play out to his advantage in longer races if he has the stamina for the longer races.

Early Speed In Game :This horse has average Early Speed, which might be an indicator that he is not a sprinter, but this will depend on how much stamina this horse really has. If this horse cannot run a long distance and doesn`t have good Break Speed, having just average Early Speed could find this horse in all types of traffic problems when racing. The good news is, this horse appears to be the type that will have energy for the stretch drive as long as he has good stamina.

Courage : Courage is not this horse`s best attribute, but this horse definitely has courage and will show you signs of it from time to time. Try not to race him over his head. That will affect his courage for sure.

I have stated from the start that we are not restricting tourny's in a manner that will actually create competitive tiers for all horses in the game. We have in fact created an environment where only top caliber horses even belong in a tourny....ANY tourny! So once again I will say that we must restrict tournies the same way that real races are restricted if we a ever going to create a multi-tiered existence like it sounds like everyone wants. That would mean maiden events, different levels of allowance events, and of course stakes events.

"We have in fact created an environment where only top caliber horses even belong in a tourny....ANY tourny!"

INDEED

Tourney called Little Bull.....Total Purse 40,000pts
http://www.horseracegame.com/community/trainer-tournament/243373/little-...

Race 1) Sr 118.90
Race 2) Sr 113.70
Race 3) No race yet

Mine just ran a Sr 87.90 and finished 7th. So little bull really means big bull.

The cheaper the tourney the tougher the competion. Those Sr numbers qualify high in Grade 1 or 2 races. But they rather run in this little bull tourney. As they say little bulls have little b#lls.

yeah, and that tournament costs 15 cents to enter. 15 cents total. You can't go much lower than that, can you?!?!

I won't be surprised if the winner final runs a 122-124.

Mines a Sr111.9, some of the horses in that race I used to own. Which they did finish higher than mine and they are higher than my current horse Sr. So this is the last tourney for my horse. If I cant complete in this tourney theres no sense of keeping this horse.

I entered my 140 in that tourney...why you might ask? Because i can...LOL

-ModGraphix Stables-

I too entered Twist Off. With a 120 horse and a 115. The tournament was not a low cost one but my horses were probably about the right quality for the race. Yet neither made it to the final and my 115 ran last twice and not placed at all. my 120 finished out of the money every race too.

It is no even viable to state that 110 - 120 is a good horse any more.
I have retired most of my horses. I had 30 I now have 11. and some of them are running til they do not qualify for instas any more then will be retired. They are not competative in tournaments any more at any level. And they are too big an sr for the blue tournaments.

Soon I will have a stable of 5 120+'s all 3yr old or older. After they have gone I not sure where I will stand with the game.

Maybe I will go and find Motron!

say howdy for us!

Actually, there is still a good place for lower SR horses in the restricteds, we need more of those. But sometimes my horses run 1 point too high to qualify anymore, and then I do have to retire them, because they ran too well, and pushed themselves into another class. Drat the luck!

I thought the Blue Restricteds would be sort of like a class system?
But at least every horse born will have somewhere to race now.
I just thought the Blues would be structured sort of like the Instas.
So that a Trainer's skill in placing low SR horses correctly by distance,surface and condition would come into play.
Skill, instead of a Free-for- all luck event.

The game is starting to become more about luck and less and less about skill. Breeding shed,handicap weights, sneaking good horses in tournaments, etc. It's all about Luck!
The last I checked, there was still some skill involved in Horse Racing.

I'm just going to win anywhere I can win, I'm throwing Sportsmanship aside. No more whining from me. No more begging people to enter Tournaments. Not one peep from me, unless to congratulate.
But please, no complaints when you see me winning Tournaments named, "itty bitty, tiny fella, wee little guy, welcome to HRF, like a virgin, etc.". Tournaments you Vets know damn well are for newbs.

itty bitty? too funny,can't believe no one responded to my 140...i wish (only for Vas benefit) LOL

-ModGraphix Stables-

He would as likely enter a 140SR monster in a tiny newbie grazing fest as bet against his own horse. ;)

No one responded because we all know you better than that.
Like Frosty said, you're an honorable guy.

And you're Canadian, only an American would stoop that low.
LOL

Too funny Vas and thank you (I think)

-ModGraphix Stables-

And by the way, I do get one more shot at you Mod, I made the final by a bitty margin, but I'm in. See you there....

Hopefully they polish up that piano Daaka keeps talking about before they put it on poor Bangsters back (LOL) Good luck Frosty!!

-ModGraphix Stables-

I had 2 horses entered into Twist Off. Both made the Finals, and finished 2nd and 3rd. They have SR's of 121.4 and 116.7. I have had some good results with some lower SR horses as well but they have to be exceptional for their SR and I have also found I have to stop trying to make every horse a champion. Some just are not going to win in this competitive environment regardless of placement or training. Of course there are many better trainers than me out there. They may have a different viewpoint.

Why would anybody enter a high SR horse in a tiny tournament? It seems a waste to me since a horse has a limited career. But if they did, isn't that up to them? Is it dishonorable? Well maybe it is. If HRF wants to set limits based on BSR I'm all for it. More blues. Heck I'd even vote yes for ALL tournaments to be blue restricted.

The concept of low tournaments being for newbs. Ok, But then what do I do with horses like these in the tournament below? Do I just retire them? Do I enter them high? The two horses I have in this tournament are SR 103 & SR 106. What is the criteria? What are the guidelines?
There is no sarcasm here. I'm asking seriously.

http://www.horseracegame.com/community/trainer-tournament/241217/go-get-...

Joey

I posted on another thread that there are several legitimate reasons to enter low. Low SR, firstime starter,low pts, etc.
Also any player can enter any horse in any General Tournament he chooses, there is no criteria and no honor system.

I was incomplete above when I said just newbs.
Low tournaments are for low horses like you've shown. Some Tournaments will say on the detail page something like"Nice event for low-level 2yo going a mile."
The problem is people putting a 125 SR in these,after the horse has proven it can run 125 in a Tourney.
The solution is handicap weights.

If it wasn't a problem, there wouldn't have been a need for the solution.
The other solution, which we agree on, are The Blues.
I agree we should have plenty and a wide variety.

Good Luck with your low SRs in the, "Teeny Tiny".
LOL, just messin with ya!

Well that makes sense. I agree 100 percent with above post, Vasdef.
Thanks for responding.

Joey

but my winning horse in the Twist off had an average SR in previous races of only 108, and his only score over 113 was in the final of the previous tourney, where he scored a 119 and only managed to come in out of the money in 6th place.

So I dropped him in class for the Twist off. He didn't sweep the series, but he ran well in the final. The new tournament he's in is a small step up in class, and he's going against significant talent; Kontroll Freak is in there, and some other horses that have run several races in the 120s, and he'll be up to his hocks in competition.

So I'm trying NOT to feel guilty.

Put your horses where they can win. Period. It makes no sense to take a 125 and continue to watch him finish off the board in bigger tournaments. Some 125's do not run close to it. I've had horses that I thought would be great because of their SR and decent performances in practice. Before you know it the horse is four and has won no points and you've spent a bunch of points campaigning where he cant win. 125 gone to waste! I had a 127 SR finish 7th in a 12,500 claimer. Sometimes they don't win no matter where you put them.

If you have low SR horses and they are sprinters, I say forget it. Retire or wait for blue tournament. If they are good over a distance, I say you have a slightly better chance of competing because its more about stamina than speed. Good luck.

~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!

This subject has been beat to death but the above post by ronwar has hit the nail on the head.

Ron thank you for your frankness and your insight.

Good luck all,

Sam

My Lad Friday had ran strong in prelims as well. He deserved to win. Nothing to feel guilty about. You did a great job. Good racing in your next tourney with him. Maybe that was the boost of confidence he needed.

We're talking about 2yos. and winning vs new players with one free horse on a consistent basis, at least that's who I'm talking about. If that's where some Vets choose to rack up the wins, more power to them.
By the time a horse is 3, you and everybody else knows what your horse can do and you're playing against people who have raced long enough to have a 3yo. Nothing to feel guilty about.

I was in that final with you and you carried Top Weight and won fair and square. Besides my horse was a high SR that does not perform, and the only reason I keep her around is because she's an FN.

I used to work at Enron, our motto was "Win ,no matter what, just Win."
LOL, get it? EnRON
Just kidding, Ron, you're right! I get the message.