Horse Racing Fantasy Community

I love Instas, but not too many are willing to lose there good are decent horses. Puddles mentioned that he is raising the claim price (keeping entry fee the same) on some of the instas as well as adding VIP bonuses so this may help. I would also be interested in knowing why more do not enter the 60K - 120K tournaments.

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May they all come home safely!!!

the real deal behind the instas, while very very few trainers want to manipulate and use the instas to make points because its not competitive and if a trainer enters a somewhat decent horse they know they have a very good shot at taking that insta, they mainly go after the high points instas so best to watch those and claim the horses some of these top trainers enter there because chances are they are hoping no one claims it at that price......the instas is there for trainers who wants to rack up tournament wins that was until hrf caught onto the cheap trick and made sure the the intsa wins were different from regular tournament wins so really only the trophy is what you get out of it...only a smart trainer who wants to play around with the instas will find it rewarding.

sundown

Ron. The reason I do not enter 60k -120k instas is because my points total stands at 57.5k and my horses will get murdered at that high a level. The entry fees will cripple me.
I just read through the blog that Mike wrote. The claim fee is not the issue. You start entering better horses in the instas then I will have nowhere to place my poor horses. With sand baggers and the likes I cannot run my horses anywhere but instas. If they get better horses in more lower horses will start disappearing.
Also I will not claim a 20k horse. 10k was a good price. You may/maynot get a good horse but cheaper than breeding.
Now at 20k you may as well breed!
If HRF decided to let the owner collect the whole fee then the claimee would not have to suffer.
If someone wanted to claim an expensive horse they had the choice to claim from the higher grades. Now the low grades are too high so its the low risk claimers that are suffering.
This is a really bad idea!

i am gonna say it guys ......the entry fees are too high....

They are without bonus's but if you got a bonus as well as the win and got the full claim fee then the price is ok. But to raise the claim fee means this. At the lowest grade you get 10k back from 7.5 put in and HRF get 10k and your entry fee. Thats not right.

I can not agree with point number 1. I would hate to wait 2-3 weeks after caliming a horse because it is tied up in a tourny. Point 4 is valid. I guess asking for all is a bit much (the house needs something) but getting 80-85% would be nice. Getting under half is disgraceful and will cost trainers more in long run.

"I would also be interested in knowing why more do not enter the 60K - 120K tournaments."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Maybe because you win them all! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

would solve the problem but since being mention by Mike once never another word....Stan

Whaley's Stables
Home to some of the World's Finest Gin
"At Least Temporarily"

If they take away the low claiming price then noone will claim. so whats the point of a claimer race?
When a real trainer enters a seller he sets tthe price and the buyer needs to decide is it worth the risk?

The point is Instas do not fill and we need to find out why and fix it

I love them. Its the only way I can win tournaments to pad my stats, not to mention where else could I get some points.

is right what would a small stable like his do without them..LMAO....Stan

Whaley's Stables
Home to some of the World's Finest Gin
"At Least Temporarily"

Its the only way I can win tournaments to pad my stats

Ah poor guy.
Is it just me or does this guy really have a sick sense of humor?

The entry fees are too high -

Flyingdaaka has done well with these events. He has profited from them, and has picked up a few very nice horses along the way. If you know what you are doing, you can make these insta-claiming tournaments work to ones advantage. Again, you need to know what you are doing. In many cases they are the best way to accumulate points, and often the purses are greater than many general tournaments.

~~ The Flyingdaaka stable: Low SR horses only ~~

The entry fees are too high.
The house take is too high
The payout is too high.

The only ones I see filling are the 12500 ones.
If you want them to fill, make them more realistic. Claiming races are for lower-level horses in the real world.
Bring down the entire price structure, and they will start filling.
HRF needs to think of Instas, like McDonalds thinks of hamburgers. (Quantity over Quality).

No offense to any Trainer that uses them, but I can't see a claiming horse being at the Top of any leaderboard, it doesn't make sense. We use terms like "snuck" a good horse in a Insta. Great ,so you beat a bunch of 90-110 horses. here's your badge.LOL!
I'm just kidding, I'm ribbing Ron and Kindur. It's all good though and Congrats to the savvy trainers who use them effectively.
BTW, that was a brilliant move by Slavedave the other day, claiming the field and getting a 130SR. WTG Davo!

my problem with he instas are that when i enter one....i dont have any fn horses so i dont get the full price....other wise i would enter horses in for 7500 and get back 12500 better then retiring

Too funny...what was I thinking trying to win races and points and not just trying to pass off slow rats to other trainers. LOL

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May they all come home safely!!!

Your the King of Claimers!!!

Slow Rats.....LOL!
I resemble that remark, but I've never put anything less than a 110 in a Insta, unless it was a FN.

When they first started, I thought they were a good place to run a decent 110-120 SR horse.
But Dave proved the other day that people are sticking 125+ in 12,500 Instas. So what's the point?
I'm not entering a 125+ in an Insta, unless it was the 120K, but those rarely fill. The purses are great if you can win, I'm just not that much of a gambler. I'm definitely not risking a 125+ horse to win a 12,500 Insta, and yes SR isn't everything, yes we know.......Dave which horse won that Insta the other day? The 130,the 126, or one of the 105's? Could've been the 105, but come on, let's keep it real about SRs.

Like I said, my hat's off to Trainers who use them strategically and effectively.

Before HRF decided to post the leaders of the Instas on the web site I was keeping records in order to claim from those trainers that were looking to profit from the tournaments. For the record I claimed over 10 horses with an AVG Sr of 118. At that time it was far better than my breeding Averages. The data was based on the first 136 INSTA tournaments run. The results of those tournaments showed the following stats.

126 trainers
20 showing a net profit 16% of those 20 7 had run 2 or less entries so with trainers that had run more than 2 entries 10 % were profitable.
Leaders : RonWar,Racodo,Lele77,Kindur,Cardoso,Birdzilla,becavic
7/126 had over 100k in net pts or 5.6%
28/126 had losses of over 100k pts 22%
Not to embarass anyone I will not post the biggest losers.

4 players had lost over 500k pts.

Claimed 32%

446/1401 horses
As expected 10-12500 highest % with 35%

Of the winning trainers - 60% of their horses were claimed. 100/169 entries

Of the top 13 pt winners only 4 were above breakeven when you consider the cost to breed the horses they lost

The majority of all the races those trainers competed in were 25K and under tournaments.

If anyone wants the data send me a PM. I will forward spreadsheet to you.

William Kindur

You hit the nail on the head! It's all about loosing good horse that cost good money. With the bigger instas, it's worth loosing a little money for a LOT of points!

Goodbye

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, JB, I'm right there with you.

Dbacks, excellent job on those stats. And WOW, they are ugly!

Some additional facts

41% of all winners were claimed
30 % of winners used Lasix
56% of winners were vetted

Aside from dbacks lengthy stats, there are simpler reasons to claim. Not all trainers thoroughly train their horses. There are some unpolished diamonds in the rough that can be had. Flyingdaaka feels he has a pretty good feel on who is a good candidate to claim from. There are trainers out there willing to risk a good horse for the sake of padding stats. Opportunities arise from that line of thinking. Some trainers who have just spent a tremendous amount of resources on breeding want some justification, and will enter some good horses in claiming races to get some points and make them feel as though they have gotten something in return for all that breeding.

Flyingdaaka has claimed 15-20 horses in total. Only 1 was proven to be totally useless and retired. The rest were either claimed from another claiming race or currently running in the stable. There were a number of those with an SR over 115 and 3 of the horses claimed were over 120. Flyingdaaka has won 4 out of his 5 total general tournaments with claimed horses.
For new players, or those who simply do not wish to spend a lot of money, claiming is a great way to get into the game. Flyingdaaka highly recommends it to all new players. But it must be done in a calculated manner. Like Vasdef said, if your goal is to get into the shed, claiming is not for you.

Sasteve, 3 year old instas rarely fill for a very simple reason. By the time most horses are 3, the trainer has long figured out if the horse is good enough to keep (and not risk losing) or is not going to be good enough to keep. If the trainer decides they are not good enough to keep, to avoid stable fees for such horses, they retire them. It makes sense. If you are struggling with what to do with your 3 year old horses, you need to decide if they can be competitive in general tournaments, or allow them to meet Uncle Shotgun.

~~ The Flyingdaaka stable: Low SR horses only ~~

Kindur and other trainer are correct- The direction we are going for insta tournaments is higher purse structures to attract good horses. This will protect the players entering the insta's. We are raising the claiming fee and adding VIP bonuses but not raising the entry fee. We are also adding the frequency of jackpot and super jackpot tournaments for Insta tournaments as well. This strategy will get the players wanting to claim horses and not breed to think a little harder before doing it and at the same time get the players with good horses to take a risk by entering more Insta events because of bigger payouts and more points returned if their horse is claimed.

Insta tournaments now favor the buyers over the next few weeks that will change and will balanced out . These tournaments are still new and are being constantly evaluated.

If we lower the entry fee in insta tournaments the insta's will fill up with worthless horses because there is no risk to the player entering enter.

Increase return to the owners with higher payouts will make the insta's a better place to play under certain conditions. No matter what we do to many players enter the insta's for the wrong reasons and that can not be stopped.

The price tied to the insta tournament is not to be used as a metric for what a horse is worth. It is a eternal program to protect against fraud . More then 60% of all horses entered in insta are worthless and should have never been entered at all. The new blue restricted trainer tournaments are a MUCH better spot for these low rated horses.

The blue restricted tournaments fill a big void in the game when it comes to entering horses in tournaments.

"Sasteve, 3 year old instas rarely fill for a very simple reason. By the time most horses are 3, the trainer has long figured out if the horse is good enough to keep (and not risk losing) or is not going to be good enough to keep. If the trainer decides they are not good enough to keep, to avoid stable fees for such horses, they retire them. It makes sense. If you are struggling with what to do with your 3 year old horses, you need to decide if they can be competitive in general tournaments, or allow them to meet Uncle Shotgun".

Your assessment of why 3 yr old instas do not fill is spot on buddy. The point I make now is that the whole point of instas and restricted tournaments was sot that our weaker horses had the chance to run a full career.
Taking away the lower instas that are already failing to generate interest is ending the hope of the lower sr horses ever edging past 3.

That means that my stable is about to reduce to 25% of what it is and that means HRF will lose out on 85000 pts a month off me. As I refuse to persist with the horses that are no longer catered for in HRF.

Interesting post, but do you people really believe claiming will decrease with better horses entered in claiming races ??? If better horses prove to be indeed, attracted to claiming races, then you can expect an uptick in claiming which will become more of a safe play than risky breeding. These blue restricted events should take away the potential for garbage being entered in claiming races. This will almost guarantee that any claim will return atleast an SR 115 horse and probably more likely, something 120 or above. It could take several breeds/vet visits to get something like that in return. Flyingdaaka believes the slight increase in claiming fees will not scare away a potential claimer or, for that matter, make a trainer feel more protected. Not sure how you can say that the purses will be "higher" unless the entry fees are increased. Purses are based on entry fees. Perhaps this is "misinformation". LOL

Sasteve, well, sorry to see that you are upset about potentially losing a bunch horses, however, the option that seems to work and one that is used by almost everybody, is simple. Breed new ones to replace the old ones.
~~ The Flyingdaaka stable: Low SR horses only ~~