Horse Racing Fantasy Community

i go by the PR, where it says long slow work out i go with a 5-7f light, lots of people don't believe in it but its what i use.

Sundown

Thanks for the reply. I know you have an awesome stable, so, if that's how you do it, apparently the PR does work, at least in that respect.
Beefy

No one else has any ideas on pre training? I definitely feel that this makes a difference between winning and losing a race-in some cases. There are those "Freaks" out there (horses) that can win no matter what, but, for those stubborn mules, the training could mean money or an empty wallet!
Beefy

I'll refer to the trainer instructions in the Performance Report for the first race workout. I like the fact that the terms "long slow workout" or "short fast" are pretty general. Sometimes I'll switch from a slow gallop to a breeze to see if that has any effect on performance. There is no doubt that different horses preform better given different training routines. For some it won't matter much, for others it will matter a lot. That being said, I've had horses win-and run huge SR's- when I've completely neglected to give trainer and jockey instructions at all. Graffiti Artist set the 9f fast track record at Belmont after a bout of neglect from me. Then again, I've had others that have raced horribly when I've forgotten. I guess like everything else in this game, you just have to learn from experience with each individual cyberbeast. My advice is gon't get stuck in a routine. Tweak things from time to time and see how they work out.

Lazy Horses= 5-7 Furlongs, handily
Horses that gain weight= 6-8 Light gallop
Fragile Horses= 3-4 Light gallop
Unable to assess= 5-7 breeze

For most horses it works but for the pathetic ones you may just have to figure them out yourself

Not a Pro but I use to train as I pleased but now I tend to follow the PR because I get a bit better results

you could do what the professionals do and just tell the horse a motron joke - the horse will surely run like a banshee and win by 10 lengths!

that could work

Sunny D

LO is fragile so I'm stuck with 3F light gallops with her, though her first 3 career races her PR said something different and I want 8F light gallops which turned out to not be a good idea she clunkered badly in her 4th start.

3F light gallops though seem to work with most horses IMO, but it depends follow the PR if you don't think it's working change it.

Flyingdaaka has read that this can only affect up to 2% of the horses performance. Flyingdaaka would assess the inconsistency of each horses performance far above that. How else can it be explained that a horse can run an SR 20 or 30 points different from the prior race. Just like in real racing. Flyingdaaka has also heard many many tales about horses not even getting instructions and running the best race of their life. Basically, since Flyingdaaka feels trainer instructions are insignificant, he follows what the performance report tells him to do.

When I actually win a tournament, I'll share my advice.

Till then, I'm not sure you want to know...

But I have to warn you, telling my horses Motron jokes hasn't helped them win, they do tend to run faster, but in random directions, and shaking their heads a lot; they totally lose focus and won't follow jockey instructions anymore.

I follow the performance report unless horse doesn't seem to respond, and I try pretty much try anything before I will use Handily workout. I also Keep up with how I've worked my horses, and there results in an excell spreadsheet. Light gallop 2 furlongs less than the race seem to work well for pretty much any horse, unless horse is fragile, then I use 3f light gallop no matter the race length. If report says horse needs hard workouts, I'll go breeze workout 2 furlongs less than race. Short Fast workouts = 3 or 4 furlong breeze. Mix it up = light and breeze 2 furlongs less than race trying to end with whichever seems to work better. Adjust as needed depending on horses break level etc. These are all from my experience, and what I've had luck with use at your own risk :)

I use workout patterns I used in real training.

I tried to follow the pr, but wasn't having much luck with that. So I just hit and miss now, depending on how the horse takes jockey instruction. If it is a horse that takes instruction well, then I now follow my aunts training methods from when she trained.

"Horse Lovers Are Stable People"

I start out with 2f less breeze and go from there.Each horse is different,so keeping track of past instructions will pay off big

Chris has a good formula

-MoTron-

im sry to get involved as a newbie, but out of puddles mouth---flyingdaaka is right its 2% the training and jky. instructions. i guess thats a sr of 2-3 pts, depending on the horse. sry again as i just needed the pts for the post.

We all do that.

We all do that.

We all do that.

Oops, 40 now;)

pretty good!!!

J.Cool,meet L.Frost

Looks like your doing pretty good with Jockey and Bettor tournaments

That 2% is the difference between 1st and 4th

-MoTron-

Motron is right 2% is a lot think of how many times you have lost by a nose and it might have been your fault !!!...Stan

Sometimes with me, it's a mood thing. I'm quite aware how the real trainers of real life horses go about training their horses, so I try, for the most part to do the same, or close to doing the same. I pick up certain things to follow from the performance reports, but ignor most of what's written there.
I don't like the idea of the report saying this is the horses best surface and actually say this about every surface.
I take that to mean he/she could do well on all surfaces. But gosh, there must be one surface that he/she excells at. JMO
I already mentioned the word "mood" Well, lots of rain here and severe mudslides on back/steep portion of our property. Very depressing. Much work ahead. Hard to be in the best of moods, although I try. Sooooooo, sometimes I say the h-ll with it and don't put as much effort in it as I should.

Lazy trainer??? Perhaps. But, when some get good results by doing nothing and rely on that 2% thing that was mentioned, then why bother? Might be a waste of time. I really don't know.

At least I'm being honest. Now if somebody want's to see if they could take advantage of my lazy trainer methods, then so be it. Good luck. LOL
For the most part, I train hard and put a lot of time and effort into the whole procedure. However, I'm way too busy lately, to put 100% into training my horses. Keeping records/data, etc. Too much work. LOL

I believe it's 2% either way,good or bad,so that could be a 4% swing if done incorrectly

Sorry to hear about the Mud slides Doug,man if it's not fire,it's rain

-MoTron-

I usually use 3f and a light gallop and I run them according to their natural ability. Some horses are stubborn and don't listen to the instructions and some do. If I have a closer in the race, I use try to avoid traffic when possible.

~~~Sharon~~~

The longer the race distance the longer you can make the work outs, unless the horse is fragil. I always train the horses at distances less than they will be running in races and even less the more rigorous the training (Breeze & Handily). I don't realistically see 8f handily for a 5 furlong race. Adjust the tournament training to the distance.

Maybe one of the very experienced trainers can make a chart as to the training distances for the Racing Distance to be run: Sprints, Milers, Mid-Classic, Marathons, etc. And the distances they should be training at. Handily for Speed, Light Gallop for Stamina, and Breeze just to break up the training. (How about it general? We could use your help on this one.)

are very important too..I like to add some minced KFC to the morning feeds...I have found this works well particularly with the fragile horses as it has a fattening effect...For my horses with joint soreness, often experienced after running on fast at Aqueduct I add some minced green lip Tadpole to the evening feed..For My Lazy horses I show them the horse head in the bed scene from the Godfather DVD before they go to sleep and for my stubborn horses I connect them all to my old plough and we cultivate the fields out the back of the stables...any slackers and they don't get fed.
I don't get many winners but I have a very happy stable...

I agree. Doesn't make any sense to run your horse in a five furlong race, then have him work a mile. These short races are so full of speed, that I'd prefer something along the lines of 3 furlongs handly, reasoning that this will condition him/her for that all out final 3/8 dash.
Same reasoning goes into those long marathon races. I prefer the long slow gallops. But ya know, somewhere in training, you're going to want to have your horse open up during that last 2 to 3 furlongs.
I mean, this is what I'd do in real life racing. I think you have to do a little bit of everything. I don't know if we could truly compare real racing training procedures with our game procedures, but I'm sure much of the same reasoning is used. You have to have some sort of game plan.

I still have no idea about the pre-race training but I am recording the effects and they are quite significant.

I think the 2% difference must refer to a difference in the horses ability rather than a difference in the SR. So a reduction of a full 2% in your horses stats could easily equate to a 20-30 point difference in SR.

And, if Motron is right, and you can actually achieve a +/- 2% change in stats for each horse then that's an even bigger effect.

I'm guessing now, but I would imagine that if HRF made the majority (nearly all) of the horses with identical stats and only varied each horses preferences (track, surface, distance, time of year, peak age etc) then the +/-2% in stats would really count for something and would place a lot of value in knowing your horse and getting everything right for a 2% boost.
And it should create a very competitive environment - since most horses are very evenly matched.

Another thing worth considering... stamina/energy left after a race would lead me to believe that horses must all have between 9000-11000 ish points of stamina. The +/-2% would equate to +/- 200 ish points. Observation tells me that adding 400 stamina/energy points to any of my horses would result in a much better performance and higher SR regardless of other stats/conditions.

So, cracking the trainer instructions would probably give you a big advantage.

i use one workout primarily and that is 4f breeze....if its a long tournament and i figure i am in the finals i will give the horse a change the race before the finals....if i dont get good results first two tournaments i change....but primarily i use 4f breeze ....6f handily and 4f light gallop .....if i am in a final and dont like my chance i may swing out with a 7f light gallop

Thanks for the info. Still trying to figure it all out.

This is a very good thread. Lots of valuable first hand input, from so many members. Ron, I especially like your way of going about it and that you took the time to share with the community.I'm sure that attempting to master all of the many pieces to the training/workout puzzle would certainly put you at an advantage.
Seems like for most, there's a lot of guess work, trial and error and one's own interpretation.That's what makes this game sooooo challenging an exciting.
Emerson. Too funny. But, ya know what, as a horse person (oh I don't own horses now) If I owned real race horses, I would get my horses out of their stalls, literally everyday. I'm not kidding. I'd probably take them on long trail rides. This would be good excercise, keep them from getting bored (a must) and also keep them happy.
It is my belief, that by doing so, you'd have more success at the track during competition. I understand that this method is used in Europe, and I suppose other countrys like, Australia and New Zealand, to name a few.
In ending, I love hearing others share their methods of training. This helps us learn and is what makes the game interesting too and brings us all closer together.

I think horses can get bored. When we're training our quarter horse towards a show, we try to break it up so it's not all arena work. Trail rides are great for a horse's mind, and a heckuva lotta fun for the rider as well. And then someday when the horse can't be a show horse, (or a race horse) they can still have a second career as a riding horse.

I take my fantasy racehorses on fantasy trail rides all the time. We particularly like the desert southwest for that....

Points Sound and Frosbite...I have often wondered whether boredom is factored in..not just the headstrong, stubborn and lazy factors...When I started with HRF I didn't keep records of my training and instructions. I think I ruined a potentially good horse by 1..racing him out of class 2,,,not doing complete pre training to find his best distance, conditions, season etc and 3 not noting my instructions on training and jockey instructions....After mentoring this is what I now do ....it has resulted in a 200% improvement in results;
I have 2 spreadsheets: One sumerises each horse and has a notes column at the end: On this I record the name, purchase date, breeding, initial SR, Consistancy, Stamina, Courage, Track pref. PR recommended Workout, Pk age,PR recommended Jock Instructions then the break, early and top speeds...In the notes column I put snippets from the experienced trainers contrubutions in threads..i.e Generals comment a few weeks ago about a correlation between a horses height and its ability to stay a distance and I check this against performances......The second spreadsheet sumerises each horse race in each tourney. The Horse, The Tourney, the class, The race, distance, conditions, track and season. My Training and Jock Instuctions and a breif of how the horse ran..where it finished, its time and sr and the winners time.....I originally used the one in the program but was unable to enter any data if my horse ran in a final so I just use the spreadsheet now. I am biulding a really good record of each horse and its preferences....It is very helpful.
American racing is very different from ours with it's emphasis on speed..reading the form and handicapping is challenging..as the speed really goes on from the 3f and I think you have to train for that..In NZ and Australia you wouldn't hense what Richard referred to as the use of longer slow workouts..8-12furlongs...

Anyway I tend to follow and record the PR recommendations and assess whether they work.. I rarely use a breeze workout..Short workout is always 4f Handily ...Long slow is always 8f..If a horse is backing up quickly ie racing again within 2 days I will pull back the workout distance to 3f Handily and 6f long slow.....My fragile horses always get 8f slow unless the above applies but I don't enter a fragile horse in a tourney of more than 3 races including the final......One question I have is how do you best assess a PR training report that says "unable tp advise, you will have to adopt different to find out the best"
I have a class assesment system also that I have developed as follows..
Novice $500-2k Tournies: Horse up to 107sr
Intermediate 2k-5k Tourney Horse between 108-114sr
Good handicapper 5.5K-10K Tourney Horse between 115-123sr
Grade race quality 10k plus tournies 124sr+
I am working on a method to factor in or subtract sr points for consistancy and courage.to the above table...I have observed for example that good courage is worth 10sr points but that is a work in progress... In the meantime I use the table as aguide to enter my horses in appropriate tournies so they are not placed over their heads
Well for what its worth thats how this newbie goes about things...Hope they are of interest..
Doug I sincerley hope that rain abates and the mudslides are not causing too much heartache.. My thoughts are with you mate. Keep the chin up.

I really enjoyed reading you post. You remind me of myself when I spent hours each day working on my thoroughbred horse racing systems. Mostly speed handicapping. I now a lot about computers, but have never actually learned how to do spreadsheets, although I know what they are. I admire all the work you put into it. This is five ***** star material. I think you would be a good choice (consultant), down the road to help get the bugs worked out of the trainers portion of game. I'm confident that you would get the weight odds thing worked out in the Finals. Hopefully, when the new client comes out, it will be an improvement.

Em,
In real horse racing, it's good to space the time between races. I'm wondering, have you noticed whether, or not it's beneficial to not put your tournament races back to back??? Or, better to space them.

Btw, we had engineers here today and they're coming back tomorrow. Going to be costly. They plan on drilling 25 feet deep in many places along steep hillside and placing anchors. etc. The rain finally went away. We were getting 4 inches an hour.

That doesn't sound too good..I hope there is some kind of insurance assistance there..In NZ we have what is called the Earthquake and natural disaster commision and they are funded by a surcharge on your Householders Insurance.premiums...In an event such as what you are experiencing the damage recovery and reinstatement costs are covered within certain guidlines and premium excess arrangements by that insurance... You njust can't plan for rainlike that.anyhow as I said I hope it all works out well in the end...
Yes I have seen evidence that you can back up a horse too quickly in a tourney and I think the best guideline to that is a horses constitution indicator (another ongoing study)...In HRF the courage / consistancy factors: If these indicate positively ie do not reference too negatively such as "not horses strongest trait" etc then back to back tourneys can be considered....As in real life some horses clearly have iron constitutions and thrive on racing and work..they love it...Others just can't, they need their races spaced..I have noticed this particularly with sprinters...Because of the high kinetic energy in their make up they perform better, generally speaking, with their races spaced and they do not require a lot of work to bring them to peak...Opposite with staying horses..I think the key to managing this factor in HRF lies in the Consistency/ Courage factors somewhere. One thing I think is clear though is that there is no direct correlation between SR's and Class..A high or higher SR does not necessarily guarantee a high class performer.
A really good real life example of race spacing is my own horse Katy Lied who is very American (she was bred to be a sprinter) by Elusive City by Elusive Quality out of a mare by Thunder Gulch( Both these wonderfull stallions have shuttled to stand in A/Asia) so she carries 4 lines of Mr Prospector. She won first up after a spell of 200 days..she then had 53 days off before being produced again and won over 1200 meters (6f) in 1.9.30 on firm turf..She then backed up on her home track 7 days latter over 6f and faded to second last....She doesn't need much work to bring her to peak and needs her races well spaced...There are some pictures of her on my home page under photos if you want to see a NZ yet very American influenced sprinter.. So those are more thoughts and where my studies are being directed as I strive to produce more winners and win my and too date very elusive first tourney...

Nice thread and it's nice to see some of the top stables giving out info as well.
Emerson,the tourney entry advice thing is very reasonable.
Then again,it may relative as everything is.
I mean,I go into these low tournies all the time and dismay at having to run against beasts from
Sundown(yep he'll lower your sun and turn off your lights in a flash),Lord Racodo(hell of a nice guy,thank the heavens),
Modgraphix(Nice guy,but relentless)..I mean thank God I haven't seen BrianShaw (a hell of a breeder and player,I call him BRAINshaw).
Then there's other top stables in there as well.
Oh Sure it's their lower rated sr horses,but some of these guys have over 1 to 2,000 starts.Thank God they play fair.lol
So they know how to work their horses and win that final.
Theoretically,that could mean you can play for a million years without getting a win and 2 million years without getting a trainer tournament
winners badge.
Someone else in favor of ultra-restricted tournaments?lmao

LOL....Anything for those free 10 points..

~~~Sharon~~~

i thought these restricted races might be an out for the newbie trainer with their slow first horse, but---- it seems like a free ride for the trainer who just sent his horse to the vet and has a decent improvement. of course if the improvement was that great ,you would race him much higher but it could be just enough for a standout in that race . ive seen them run 112sr on a 100 or less restricted. so is the answer to scrap the crap?

If it can't compete and has no special distance or track or surface it can exceed it's SR dump it !!!....Stan

If it looks like a dog and smells like a dog then it most certainly is a dog.....remove animal immediatly, do not pass go, do not collect $200...User Warning..... Beware of non restricted low entry fee (low class) slop tourneys there will be monsters lurking!!!!

I'm in agreement with both of you. But realise that some don't have the money to keep breeding to get a better horse. For those folks I'd say, breed when you can and eventually, you'll probably get one worth keeping. Say, 110 ,or better still, 120 or higher.