Horse Racing Fantasy Community

Curlin put street sense and harp spun to shame.

I think the boys are lucky last yr that Rachel Alexandra didn't run in all 3 triple crown races. She would be our 12th triple crown winner.She would of sat right off pioneer of the nile and papa clem grinding off a professional win in the derby.Still cant believe she laid those fractions down(23,46,1:11,1:35) from the 13 hole vs boys for the first time and still hung on.She would of laid right off of dunkirk's hip and waited till the stretch to ease off to a 2 length win .And go down as the greatest 3yr old filly ever.Even with bo rail who is not even in the top 10 riders in the world or the nation for that.She was mis handled last yr by Dolphus Morrison and Mike Lauffer.She was in the shadow of some dreadfull owners who were money hungry and did this filly an injustice by not running her in the derby.Then they sell her for a measly 4 mill dollars.She will earn that in her lifetime and much much more in the breeding shed.I have a feeling these medaglia d oro mares will be breeding royalty in the soon future.

Fame and Glory, Could have been the best G1 horse but for see the stars.
And Denman has always been out supported by Kauto star but in a few weeks will prove he is better!

Can Rachel get 1.5 miles, though?!?!

I must admit, Sham was never considered among my favorite thoroughbred race horses, spanning decades of racing for me. Not sure why. I just don't remember much press about him before the Derby. Could be 37 years has faded my memory.
He did afterall have those two incredable races with, Secretariat. I should have liked him. Another horse in the 1973 Kentucky Derby that I did like, was, Forego. He went on to be a Good one, as we all know.

I recently read that the doctor that did the nicropsy on, Secretariat, said that his heart was the biggest that he had ever seen. Large, but not abnormally large. He also was the doctor that did the nicropsy on, Sham. He said that, Sham had the second biggest heart that he had ever seen during such a procedure.

I think he said Secretariat's heart was about twice the size of a normal thoroughbred's heart. But in no way abnormal. That's why he had that huge chest!

What a fighter, didn't he run a close 2nd in all three classics? I'm betting he'll be popular in the breeding shed and produce some great winners.

Besides, I'm a sucker for a bay with a star....

If I recall correctly, there was some media attention on Sham before the 'Derby. but, Secretariat took most of the press because of his loss before Derby and the growth he had on his mouth. In the race before the Derby in'73, Secretariat had an abcess in his mouth and lost the race- By the time Derby came around, the abcess had healed and he was good as new. We all know what happened next..............

Sham was a great race horse. In 1973 at the age of three Sham won the Santa Catalina Stakes (G2)and took second place in the Wood Memorial Stakes (G1) over Secretariat who finished third. Most impressive however that spring was his effort in the Santa Anita Derby.

Here's some SHAM facts:

On March 31, 1973, at Santa Anita Derby (GI), California's main Kentucky Derby prep race, Sham scored a 2 ½ length surprise victory over 1-2 favorite Linda's Chief, under jockey Laffit Pincay Jr. Sham electrified a crowd of 49,564 by equaling the Santa Anita Derby record for the 1 1/8 miles of 1:47, which was set in 1965 by Lucky Debonair. Sham provided Pincay with his third win in the Santa Anita Derby.

While Sham did not race again after the Belmont Stakes he was not retired, contrary to the perception of a Belmont breakdown, until July 1973 while preparing to meet Secretariat again at Saratoga. It was in mid July that a hairline fracture of his leg was detected and he was retired.[citation needed] Sham was first sent to stud duty at Spendthrift Farm and later to Walmac International near Lexington, Kentucky. Some of his progeny included stakes winners Arewehavingfunyet (f), Jaazeiro, and Safe Play who was Dam to stakes winner Defensive Play. He died of a heart attack on April 3, 1993 at the age 23. At autopsy, his heart was found to weigh 18 pounds, about twice the average Thoroughbred heart. He is buried on the Walmac farm.

Yep. You are right about the size of Secretariat's heart. It was HUGE- almost 2x the size of a "regular" thoroughbred race horse.

Amazing!

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<<< Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.

"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.

"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."

Recalling the moment Secretariat’s heart was uncovered, Swerczek said, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."

That's exactly the quote I was thinking of, Doug.

Phar Lap's heart was an ounce short of 16lb....Secretariats was the largest known heart of any thoroughbred to that time....Not sure but think it still is.....Other Equine greats with larger than average (6-9lb )hearts include Nashua....War Admiral.....Bold Ruler.....Forli......Sir Ivor......Nijinski 11......Ribot...I wonder what size Sea the Stars heart is..He was superior to all his contempories, much in the realm of Secretariat.

...that with today's ultrasound technology, they could do echocardiograms on horses and figure out how big their hearts are while they're still alive and racing.

I'm sure they can. Isn't that what they're doing on humans at some of our airports. LOL Oh, I don't know if they're looking at our hearts. LOL

Alydar and Easy Goer would both probably have been Triple Crown winners if not for Affirmed and Sunday Silence. Wasn't Alydar the 1st horse to run 2nd in all 3 Triple Crown races ? The Affirmed Alydar rivalry is what got me entrenched in the game.

You are right. I checked and Alydar WAS the FIRST horse EVER to finish 2nd in all 3 Triple Crown races in 1978. Affirned and Alydar was a great rilvalry!

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You guys peaked my curiousity.......
I did some online research and found this information coutesy of this link:

http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nutbush/

Here is a excerpt of that article in relation to the largest racing throughbred heart:

"But he had one advantage that nobody knew of at the time. When Secretariat was put down the autopsy showed that is heart weighed close to 22 pounds,the average Thoroughbred heart weighs 9 lbs. Secretariat's heart was all in porportion, not a mutation. The mutation large heart was found in the horse Eclipse at autopsy in 1789. Eclipse's heart weighed 14 lbs. We now know by research and the hard work of scientists and geneticist like Marianna Haun, that horses carry a gene for a large heart. It is passed through the X chromosome in the mare. Measurements of more than 400 horses with a ECG has found that the X-Factor is 100% consistent. It is possible to track the large heart from sire to daughter to granddaughter and grandson and to great granddaughter and great grandson. The heart scores on certain lines are 100% consistent. These lines come from Princequillo, War Admiral, Blue Larkspur, and Mahmoud.

We obviously know that Secretariat possessed the large heart gene. His heart was larger than any other TB on record. And we know that he got his large heart from Princequillo. A horse's heart is measured by a electrocardiogram and given a "heart score". That phrase was coined only 40 years ago by an Australian researcher named Dr. James Steel. In his research Dr.Steel ranks heart scores according to size. A score of 103 is considered small. A medium size heart is scored from 104-116. 117-120 and above is considered large. The Largest heart in his study was from the Thoroughbred Champion Key to the Mint. He carried the Princequello heart, and rated a heart score of 157-160. Most of Princequello's hearts were between 147 and 160. The three other "superhearts" were from War Admiral, Blue Larkspur, and Mahmoud. They had a heart score of 140-150. A heart score of 140 and above is considered very large and generally found in very successful racehorses.

Marianna Haun says in her book "The X Factor" that even though there is no heart score on Secretariat, based on the weight of his heart at autopsy his estimated heart score would have been 180. There has not been any heart score even near that size. She also states that if Secretariat's heart hadnt been so far out of the norm, they might not have ever discovered what they have about the genetic mutation that produces a high performance heart."

Interesting...........................

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I love animal physiology. I find this stuff fascinating.

You're welcome!
Fascinating is right! :-)

BTW: Did you know that a horses small intestine is 70 feet long?! And, that it's large intestine is 12 feet long?!
one more horse fact...... a horse can NOT breathe through it's mouth

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You're welcome!
Fascinating is right! :-)

BTW: Did you know that a horses small intestine is 70 feet long?! And, that it's large intestine is 12 feet long?!
one more horse fact...... a horse can NOT breathe through it's mouth

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man! this is tough!! btw--MAN O' WAR had a huge heart!! anyway--speaking of-- JOHN P. GRIER-- many have said w/o THE WAR in there he wouldve been a great champion--EXTERMINATOR ALSO--W/ SIR BARTON,TOO!
SHAM and ALYDAR-goes w/o saying.. EASY GOER,ALSO--LOOK UP THE TURF FAVS--many many great ones overshadowed by some others!!

...throw up on you, either. Something I CAN'T say about my dog!

EEEeewwwww!

info and research Mosesismine....I knew that the LH gene was passed though the female but those studies I was unaware of.....The Princequillo factor is huge info.....This is definately something that could be factored into the HRF breeding equation...maybe it is......Round Table would be an obvious producer of High SR AND above average courage....enjoyed your post immensly

You are very welcome. I'm interested in breeding and cross information, too.
I found that fact very interesting also. Not sure if it'll factor into HRF breeding though. Round Table was a great horse.... But, who to breed him too............have to research that one. :-)

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LOL! No horses can't vomit. And, yes, dogs do......

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I GAVE MY DOG A PLATE OF SPAGETTI AND HE WANTED MORE, WOULDNT LEAVE ME ALONE SO I GAVE HIM THE REST OF IT AND HE SPEWED IT ALL UP, BECASUE HE ATE TO MUCH THEN HE ATE HIS SPEW ..LOL

Did he allow whether it was better the second time?

Mr. Mojok!

Inquiring minds want to know!

I had a dog I had found in a park, starving. I took him home and fed him. No morsel touched his teeth, it was vacuumed, so I named him Hoover. Then he threw up in my roommate's moccasin. So I renamed him Hoover Heaver.

Then I was asked to move out, and take the dog with me.

Dogs are gross.

That must be why I love them. It must be a character flaw....

Hoover Heaver, that's great! =)

I've always given pasta to my dogs over the years. My current dog loves pasta. In fact, I gave him some off my plate tonight. Moderation is the key. Don't give pasta with onions though. Onions are bad for dogs. Don't ever give chocolate. That's very dangerous for your dog. Especially bakers chocolate. This could actually kill your dog.

...to kill my dog!

I would kill the dog my very own self if it ate my chocolate!

(Dont' get between a woman and her chocolate, your life will be easier, or so I've heard...)

That was a great 3 races to see. What got me hooked was watching Winning Colors winning the Kentucky Derby. I was hooked after that.

~~~Sharon~~~

Ifa use likesaa the chocolataa thataa muchaa, howza comaa use no betta ur moneys on Chocolate Candy in last years Kentucky Derby???

Silly Sound, why do you think I can't afford to be a VIP?

Lost all that money I bet on Chocolate Candy!

Shoulda listened to my bookie, instead of my sweet tooth.

Alza my grandpa Angelini gives to us kidds iiza, pasta, polenta and of corsa a bigga glass of red wine. Somea times 2 glasses. Thats when Momma gotta mad.
I lost $20.00 on Chocolate Candy. A win bet. Oh, I forgotta two mencion. Wen wee visited our grandpa, wee all shared our food with his 3 dogs who were always under the table. Iffa use likea Frencha bred, everybody gotta haffa loaf. We hadda Italian Bred to.

LOL! Me too. The Chocolate Candy wasn't so sweet in last year's Derby.

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