Horse Racing Fantasy Community

With a NN horse costing 25K I would think that no one would want to enter or claim in a 5K claiming insta-race. The 10K claiming insta-race sounds like enough of a bargain for claimers.

So I would go with 10K, 25K, and 50K.

Notably the 25K claiming insta-race features claiming prices that are the same as the purchase price for NN, PN, and FN horses.

Dusty

To me it seems like we should go with five different claiming levels (there are alot more in real racing, but for our sake 5 would be sufficient) but I would go closer to something like this.

5k Claim Price-4k Entry Fee
10k Claim Price-7.5k Entry Fee
25k Claim Price-15k Entry Fee
50k Claim Price-25k Entry Fee
100k Claim Price-40k Entry Fee

10k's-35% of all Claim races
25k's-35% of all claim races
50k's-20% of all claim races
5k's-5% of all claim tournamnents
100k's-5% of all claim tournaments

I think that the entry fee percentage s(you kn ow what i mean) should decrease as the fees increase.
See it's 80%, 75%, 60%, 50%, 40%.
You guys are already getting huge overrides on claim fee, 50% on NN horses.

I'm with the General,makes perfect sense to me

-MoTron-

I think the initial round of Insta-Tournaments was a great success, despite any minor technical issues.
This feature will be a major part of the trainer game and be a way for the little guys,like myself, to get in on the action.
You guys have done a great job with the game, Mike. Thanks for involving the players, at any level, in the decision making process.

As far as the claiming prices go, I think 5k and 10K are too low.
Instead of early retirement, maybe a 5k claiming race would give a 90SR horse a chance, but who would claim it?
The NN,PN and FN status of the horses has to be taken into account.
I understand risk vs. reward, and I can't see anyone risking a 50k or 100k horse in a 5-10K claiming race, I don't care how sorry said horse performs.

A 20K claim nets the previous owner 10K and the new owner still gets a bargain for a NN horse, I think 20K should be the lowest price. 20-30-40-50.
200K is the highest price anyone would pay for a claim, which is enough reward for an owner to risk a decent FN in a 50K claiming race. (175K for a 100K-175K horse) plus the purse incentive. Risk vs. reward!
The claiming prices and entry fees were just about perfect in this initial test round.

Just my humble opinion, but I do have a couple of Insta-Tournament badges to back it up! LOL
I suck as a trainer, but at least I know it.

For once I am in total agreement with General, although for someone to even attempt to put a really good horse in an Insta-Tournament there should be ones for 200,000 claiming with a 50,000 point entry, or somewhere around there otherwise a good horse can never run in them.

Flyingdaaka suggests a claiming event for horses that are all 3 or older and never won a single race. However, don't change too much, they seem successful, of course, Flyingdaaka would also like to see the horses he enters in claiming events not have to start a 5 furlong race at a bull-ring track from the grandstand, and have about 50 feet to get going before being forced to go 14 wide into the turn.

I was writing my initial comment after just reading Mike's (Puddles not racodo) post.
No other comments were posted at the time.

The General makes a good propasal.
And at 5 and 10K claims, the players with modest bankrolls are afforded a chance to build up their stables.
For the big breeders, at the very least you'll recoup 10%(2.5K for a 25K horse) instead of immediately retiring the horse.
10% is better than nothing, so maybe it's not a bad idea.

I've been wrong once or twice before, I think it was back in the 90's, so maybe I was due.

I also agree with general's suggestion. But start at 10k, and add 35k in between.

"Horse Lovers Are Stable People"

100,000 yes! As long as the claim price, entry fee and purse correlate, make sense and are consistent I'm on board.

~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!

I think 5k will be ok. You put a horse in to win the race. It is a risk that it may get claimed. But the point is that the most people would only race slower horses in the race. If you can sneak one in a little faster you have the points. But it gives a chance for the slower horses to win a decent pot.

That is a good point, it would give the slower horses a chance to win some. It might still keep the higher SR's horses out. With some of the restricted tourneys seeming to draw horses that have been entered in one tourney on their NOT favorite surface, to keep their SR's under the required. Then they pop off 120's and 130's in the restricted prelims, and that is on a fast track...... and walk away with the points for the finals.
I know waaa, waaa, waaa.... So don't slam me for my complaining. I already know I am doing it.

"Horse Lovers Are Stable People"

Claiming races should be cheaper to enter than other races.If someone has to invest so much in a lessor horse might as well just retire it ....Stan

I like this idea, the cheaper the better... as sassteve says allows you to risk a good horse to try and steal the prize.
Also, as he said, gives slow horses a chance at a win.

That FN that you paid 100k for that turns out to be fit for dog food might just get a couple of runs - and even if it gets claimed it's better than nothing.

Might wanna vary entry fees at every level of claimer... try and temp people to enter good horses into the cheap claimers just to win the prize?? Just an idea.

Let's not overdo it now. You people are looking to cheapen the quality of racing done here. If you want to watch a bunch of cheap claimers run, just click on "Quick Start" and watch em go!!! You can do that all day if you wish. Flyingdaaka wants to see quality races in here.

It's not that we want to watch cheap horses we want to keep the gamesmanship in the races.I thought the entries fees on the first claimers was fine,now they want to jack them up. Why ??... Stan

but claimers are just one aspect of the trainer game... and cheap claimers would just be an available option.
Leaves plenty of room for quality races for the lucky/talented few!

Entry fee should be 25% of claiming price.
100,000 claimer- 25,000 entry
50,000 claimer- 12,500 and so on.
Something in that area.

That is better than the list Puddles posted,in real racing claimers run for less than stakes races...JMO...Stan

We have 2 schools of thought . If the entry fee's are lower then players with good horses will not want to risk the horses for lower prize payouts . If the prize payout was higher then they may enter good horses worth claiming for the high prize pool.

The other is make them (insta tournaments) less expensive so more players are willing to enter the events .

In both these cases there are pro's and con's .

I feel the higher the entry fees the better quality racing we will get in the insta tournament . This also helps break out different levels of classes . No player with a cheaper horse will want to risk the higher entry fees in high priced claiming event. If they entry fee was low he may just take that risk.

Notice in our general tournaments that the higher priced entry events 95% of the time draw the best horses . If those entry fees were low and the tournaments had no restrictions then we would see all levels of horses in them .

Just my thoughts -Please continue we need the feedback

Then maybe the answer is like the rest of the races have different entry fees on the races some higher some lower gives everybody a place to run and still leaves some games play on placing horses a cheaper horse going up to try to draw a claim and a better horse going down to try and steal a final....Stan

My only concern is if you get a good horse, if claiming races are all cheap then you would never be able to run him in them. The justification of the higher breeding prices was that a horse could now have a chance to run in six tournaments per year of age. Three regular and three instas. There should be some really cheap claimers to keep horses from the retirement home, but there should also be some really high claimers to lure the best horses. Imagine the hype if there was a 500,000 claimer that had a field with the likes of horses like Misty Images, Lord Outstanding, Wells Fargo...... You see where I'm going with it.

Seems we are in agreement that the best answer would be to have different entry fees....Stan

Claimers shouldn't be a way to dump your duds that not even you want, but a way to build yourself a better barn. Racodo I think you're on the money. Risk/reward! The more reward, the bigger risk I would take.

~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!

Stans suggestion is a happy compromise - something for everyone.

What was the plan when HRF came up with the idea of claimers? Was it to see high class horses change hands?
Or was it to give good trainers the chance to pounce on horses that the current trainer was failing with?

I thought it was the latter... but I do like the idea of being able to buy a top class, proven horse. So that puts me back with Stan.

If you needed justification for only having cheap claimers then I would say breeding a horse that is too good for a claiming race is a reward in itself! But if you breed a donkey you will at least have claimers to run in - indeed, you are probably restricted to running only in claimers.
Each stables idea of what is worth risking will differ - which may well lead to less fortunate breeders having the chance to grab themselves a better horse that a bigger stable considers to be borderline.

But I'm struggling to see justification for only having pricey claimers - it means the breedings that turn out to be no good have cost more and not provided more opportunity. But, I will concede that when you get a good one you will have even more races to win. Sort of gives you something to look forward to when you get a good one.

Can we have both?

Well Stated..If they give us both I think we would all be happy.....Stan

For me to enter my horses into a 10k claimer (5 NN horses) it would cost me nearly 60% of my current points. Leaving me 20k to pay off stable fees and I feel I would be safe to say tha none of my horses would win. So prospects of point success slim.
Having cheaper races gives me access to the chance of bigger earnings which one day may help me to breed a super horse. At the moment I have a few very average horses that it would be nice to think could potentially return my investment in breeding them.

Never said have all high claiming races. What I said is there should be a few very high ones. I love how people come on here and twist your words.

What's worse than a Tornado?

A word Twister!

-MoTron-

No you were obviously just concerned about all the insta's being cheap. You are right there needs to be some for every situation. The price will help sort out the class problems too.

I certainly was not intentionally having a go at you or anyone else in this thread (makes a change I know!).

I was trying to show justification for having either high or low priced claimers... just sharing my thoughts really.

Stan posted a response while I was writing mine - and it pointed out that you are both pretty much in agreement. Had I read Stans post before I replied I would have agreed also.

I actually like the idea of claiming a star that has just won a bumper payout - even if it is expensive... just nice to get in the winners circle!

Again, not having a pop at anyone here at the moment!
Except maybe Motron! ;o)

No problem my man. Just want to see some claimers for all sorts. Now we must remember that not all horses make it to the track. Some horses are bred that should never compete and people should realize that and just take the loss and move on.

Atleast it's not 'Boaring',lol

-MoTron-

imo ,i cannot see top class horses in the claiming races , a top class horse has form , wins races , if you had one of these horses you will lose it in a flash in a claiming race , i ask myself if there was a 600,000 claiming race would i put my horse in , i would say no , not when i can pick up 200.000 in a regular tournament , dont forget you dont get the full claiming fee .
I have Run River Run in my stable , i know he is not eligable for these claiming races , but if he was and there was a 1 million claim race ,i would not put him in , what do i get by entering him , i may win the 1st place purse , but i lose my horse and get 500,000 points for the million points claim , i just cannot see these races attracting top class horses . You wait along time for a good horse to come along and i just cannot see these top class horses in these Insta Tournament .
I would love to hear what other owner of top class hoses have to say , would you be happy to enter your horse in these races , some how i dont think so but lets hear from you .
-Craztphil-

Well remembered Sir!

I agree 100% with Craztphil. If I have a horse that looks to have high potential I would definitely not put him in any price claiming race. I think the Claiming races are going to end up like garage sales.
Dusty

One Mans Garbage Is Another Mans Treasure....Stan

I think the entry fees should be 25% of claim as stated earlier -
I also think that the levels should be 20k 40 k 50k ,80k, 100k It costs a lot to breed and the rewards for a claim should be high. Lose the impression that it is a dumping ground for lesser horses.

Well Mod's horse won the big claiming race and the horse was claimed.
Decent purse also.
I think the entry fee and claiming price are just about perfect for that level.
The set-up of these initial races seemed right, why mess with it?
Maybe add a 10K level and a 75-100K level, and we're in there.

Still i think that the entry fees should be lower for those tournaments. 25-30k is a good entry fee for a 50k Claim Tournament

Okay, I'm just a newbie here, but I've bred 5 horses and 4 of them couldn't outrun me. 3 are retired, one went to the vet. If you are going to insist that anything other Dr. Fager- Ruffian must have an 90 speed rating or less...........

Let's forgo the rant and just say that I think cheap claiming races are as much fun as a Breeders cup, if your horse has a chance. But I am really getting tired of chasing horses that go 22,44,107, 132, 155, etc.

I know you do your research, so I'm for any of your suggestions.
Heck, I don't even remember what the entry fees were and I had horses in every claiming race.

But I agree with you,We need to cater to all levels of players.

Graphix just won 300k for a donkey
Well played O Canada

As they say in the States...Hee Haw,Hee Haw

-MoTron-

craztphil, as you know I have Run Ruff Run, in my stable, and as you said with The River, if RRR was able to enter in an insta, there is no way I would even consider entering him, for any price. He may be just a lowly 120SR, but he gets it done, and that is all that matters to me. I would not risk him for any amount of reward. That said, of the horses I did get that are able to enter, I only entered horses that were some where in the middle. Entering them was more just to see what it was all about. But after their poor performances they have been retired.

"Horse Lovers Are Stable People"

puddles, i agree with some as the 5k might be to low.. i feel from 10k up to 50 k is perfec for insta.... also anything above 50k makes it inpossible to claim a fn horse with unkown potential..

Davo..

"Play Hard but Have fun doing it"

so many replies i missed half..hahahaa..

MY only problem with low cost insta is the price you pay initially for your low sr NN...
42000 points for NN with vetting, now in my case today i vetted a 108(not bad horse) and got back from the vet a 100 donkey again.. lol lol
Now for me to enter it in an INSTA say 5k event the prize money would need to be more then the restricted races..

PUDDLES if ALL insta races can carry i higher prize pool then a similar normal tournament i think ok. BUT if very low prize for cheap insta a better option would be to run more restriced races or low sr horses.

I still feel knowing the horses in a 5k insta will be all bad it makes it hard to claim with a smile on your face.... 10k+ i think perfect..

GREAT WORK PUDDLES once again... insta so far was great..

"Play Hard but Have fun doing it"

Sorry i keep thinking of somthing new lol.. i also think a 5k and 10k insta would need to have a limit (per member) for claiming to allow everybody time to veiw and claim... maybe 1 or 2 horse per event limit you may claim... but only in the smaller price insta..
If not you may have 100 poeple putting in claims on every horse which will drive the HRF computer insane finding a new owner.

"Play Hard but Have fun doing it"

Dave, you are right on this, Flyingdaaka found it to be most unfortunate that so many members could not enter a claiming race, when all the junkies in here had 2 or 3, in one greedy case 5 horses in one race. Flyingdaaka hopes that he is never stuck on an island with these people, where food and water would need to be rationed. It is clear folks like this would take what they need and leave the others to starve.

put SR restrictions on the claiming races as well? If you have a good horse that isn't competing with other horses of its 'caliber', but is running high SR figures, then that horse can't run in a 10k claiming race if restricted by SR figure. We don't have n1x or n2x or opyional claiming to separate horses but we have SR figures. We could also use $$$ won as a restriction. Look, I thought insta tourney were to be used to race more frequently AND give lower class horses more opportunities to win and earn some $$. Now, you want to make the claiming races more interesting? Allow the winner of the claim to add equipment, geld a horse, change a bridle, change running style, change training routine, add blinkers, etc. The change may or may not improve the horse but the risk/reward factor would still be in place. Let these thoughts sink in, analyze and comment. Run with it!

;)

We're on the Island Now...

Watch out for the 'Others'

-MoTron-

I think having equipment additions such as shadow rolls, blinkers, noseband or tongue straps could definately add another dynamic into the game. Plenty on the agenda, so perhaps something to look at down-the-line?