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Will the new synthetic racetracks change the way we classify a true champion in its current context?
Yes, as more racetracks move to these surfaces, we will have to consider the best thoroughbreds on those surfaces as champions.
19%
No, a true champion would perform well on any racing surface, thus the meaning of true champion.
58%
Not sure-it will be hard to compare old-time greats to current greats at least from the standpoint of speed and speed ratings.
22%
Total votes: 36
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Comments
I really think he needed this as a tightener! He kind of lugged home in 13+ for the final furlong.
I imagine he will be tougher second off the layoff. I guess Mass Cap makes sense....as a softer spot to face older, but I would like to see one more shot at 3 year olds with the travers but it sounding like they only want 1 more before the BC.
The Haskell was Curlins first race after the triple crown races too and I believe he finished third, so I think you're right BB could have needed that one. The next one will really tell.
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May they all come home safely!!!
He might not have won by alot but he is the real deal.
I can't agree with Big Brown being the "real deal". This has to be the WEAKEST 3 year old crop I've ever seen. I'm sure everyone can agree with me on that. Da' Tara will struggle to win another graded race in his life time.
Then Coal Play can't even win an Optional Claiming race gave Big Brown everything he had and only fell a nose short.
He won't do anything outside of the 3 year old division. If he and Curlin were to face off today, I'd bet everything I have on Curlin to win by more then 5.
I agree the field wasnt great but his time was respectable, Coal Play ran a very good race...
I don't agree with this year's crop being weak. There are a lot of very good horses and most of their owners seem to be ducking one another. One thing I can say is there has been a lot of weak races this year. The Kentucky Derby was the real deal but everything after had one, maybe two good horses and a bunch of nobodies. I'm not a big fan of Big Brown but I love Curlin. If these two went head to head I would be afraid to say that Big Brown would win.. I do have to add that if Kent Desormeaux rode Big Brown the way he has recently(under restraint...Desormeaux's race not Big Brown's) Curlin would have the better stretch run and would win. Hate to be an arm chair jockey but Desormeaux has not riden Big Brown's race in the last 3 races. To add to that, Shaun Bridgmohan does an aweful job of riding Pyro. I might say less than aweful...but that horse was more than capable of winning a few times had he rode him as a stalker instead of the "last to first" type of horse he thinks he has.
Didm't Curlin who everyone is so high on get beat the last time he ran? But I guess he ran against nobody so that dont count either.
Curlin's last race was on Turf, his first try on that surface and there were 2 Breeder Cup winners in that race. Those are facts but I am on your side I think the 3yr old crop is stronger than what its getting credit for...
This is what I love in our game over other horse race games is that we have the tie from fantasy to real world racing . The 3 year old crop this year seems to be a little weak or atleat I think so compared to last years 3 year olds .
Every other year we hear how this is the weakest 3 yo colts ever. Gimme a break. What makes them weak? their times, their speed figures, or one or two are just a lot better than the others? These horses are not exacly a bag of bones:
Big Brown
Colonel John
Harlem Rocker
Pyro
El Gato Malo
Gayego
Sailors Cap
Gio Ponti
Tizdejavu
Two Step Salsa
Tres Borrachos
Let me know when you see one of these graded stake winning animals in a claimer. By the way, none of the older horses outside of Curlin have any 3 yr olds shaking in their boots. Okay, I'm stepping down from my soap box now :)
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May they all come home safely!!!
see now i am a big fan of horses but the onlly thing i hate is when a horse owner is to stuck up with the money they win to think about the horse that was doin all the work.
I left a comment next to each horse named.
Big Brown--Of course the best of the crop so far.
Colonel John--Decent runner, can he run on dirt?
Harlem Rocker--Faced weak company in FL and NY...did good in Canada
Pyro--Second best at this point....looks good as he gets older.
El Gato Malo--Hasn't been right lately.
Gayego--Showed little in the big races.
Sailors Cap--Doing alright, never on the TC trial.
Gio Ponti--Never on the TC trial.
Tizdejavu--Hasn't faced much...he will get a true test if he runs Sat.
Two Step Salsa--Decent runner...haven't seen much of.
Tres Borrachos--Faced just 3 others last time...would like to see more.
Fair comments, but Gayego won I think it was the Arkansas Derby, first time dirt. Then got beat up in the derby. The Preakness he never should have run in after flying back to California, that was crazy. Harlem Rocker is going to make some noise down the line. He his going to be ultra tough in the Travers at a hint of price.
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May they all come home safely!!!
big brown will win the classic, he def needed this race and if coal play didnt tire he was beaten. still put up a decent beyer in 107 same as the sim haskell. i think mass cap makes sense but dutrows talkin turf now
Yeah, Gayego won the Arkansas Derby. Harlem Rocker looked good in his last start at Fort Erie...and will get a good test in the Travers. He is still learning too, if he stays healthy and continues to run he might be on top of the classic division next year. He's only ran, what? 5 or 6 times?
Of course Curlin is the real deal - getting beat by better on there days. Still odd that he lost to any given saturday on a sunday. Rags to Riches is a special philly. Red Rocks on turf an low weight as Curlin. If Curlin wasn't in that race Red Rocks would of been the short priced chaulk. They had to run Curlin on the Turf - last time I checked SA is the aweful Synth which plays still as turf. I hope owners an trainers see the errors in there ways an get these horses there so we can have an amazing BC weekend. They still forget who pays there bills. But we still have alot of questions on how well many top horses will do on the synth.
Santa Anita is revamping thier polytrack, I think. I remember reading something that they are going to have the same surface as Hollywood.
Everyone has a case in regards to whether this years 3 year olds are weaker than previous years 3 year olds. We see these horses run really well in the beginning of the year and often go downhill during the year leading up to the Triple Crown. Are they being run too much?? I think yes. When these horses require graded earnings... they have to run the races of their life in order to get into the starting gate. As a result the gas tank is somewhat empty when Derby/Preakness/Belmont comes around even though the trainers are stating they are game for the race. Then in some cases... Some trainers elect to train and run their horses lightly. They may skip the Triple Crown races and point to smaller derbies such as Indiana Derby, Pennsylvania Derby and others. Is it a smart idea??? Perhaps... a lightly raced horse named Timber Reserve won the PA derby last year.. Now you can argue no major studs were in that race (Zanjero, Bwana Bull), but someone has to win it. I personally feel that the crop is slightly weaker than previous, but however with new reforms and ideas I think they will get strong as they regulate breeding rules, but i think i will be 50 by the time that happens. I will enjoy seeing Smarty Jones colts/fillies as well as Big Brownies running around. Who knows what 2009 will bring us, but I am hoping for the best.
Right now there is a problem in the racing industry and most are complaining that the horses aren't running enough. Back in the day horses would grace the track 20 sometimes 30 times a year. Now were lucky to see a great horse run 10 times a year.
The thing that's doing this is the medication. Yes, it helps them when they run but just like human medician, it will always have a side effect. Some states have already banned steriods and now the Breeders Cup has followed saying no horses is to run with it in thier system. I wish all states would ban them.
I agree that horses are running less and less and it's not doing much good for the game. When you have a great horse, people want to see that horse, and most of the time they don't get to see that horse past it's three year old season. I'm very impressed that Curlin stayed in training this year.
I'm completely against Big Brown, myself. lol I can't say I hate the horse, but I am no fan of him. I think he's a very good stakes competitor born in a below-average crop. I want to see him race Pyro again. If he can beat my boy again, I'll give him a little more credit. Although in his last race he did surprise, if not impress, me. I had thought that Big Brown was purely faster than the other horses and had no gameness or heart whatsoever. I sincerely thought that he'd quit in the Haskell. He didn't, and that surprised me, and I have to say that gained him some brownie points in my book. I'm not the kind of person that immediately likes a horse because it won by daylight. A horse is more impressive, in my opinion, if it gets headed in the backstretch and comes back to win by a neck. Gameness is more important to me than speed. Of course, the gamest horse doesn't always win the race, nor does the fastest horse. That's what makes the game so great. But, as far as personally being a fan of a horse, I'd prefer the horse that can beat out the others in a stretch duel than run them off their feet. The most famous horses tend to be those that show their gameness - Affirmed and Alydar, Sunday Silence and Easy Goer, etc.
That's my take on things.
i was at the haskell and i saw big brown. he was amzing you may not think he is the real deal but after i saw his strech run im a beliver. he didnt win by that much at the haskell but the was because kent helded him to long. he even said that after the race. after seeing that i think he is the real deal. i am also going to go see curlin in the woodward and then i can really compare them.
I dont know....I thought he really looked average and maybe a bit soft and his next one he will improve....but I think a lot of the 3 year olds may have caught up to him in terms of growth. In May he developed into a super horse come august a very good horse.
A lot of rumors around that we will never see Brown race again on the dirt. The breeding end is putting a lot of pressure to retire him now to protect his stud fee. Just internet rumors though
i can see what your talking about. he will deffenitly being running two more times so it will be intersting to see what happens. but ever time big brown has been healthy and trained well before a race he has won so i think he is going to suprise alot of people of the next couple of months. with big wins in his next two starts.
I'm still not a believer in 'ol Brownie. I do hope that we get to see him continue to race in these last two starts, so that we can really see what he's made of, and so that he can prove himself to everyone.
Won the Derby, Preakness and Haskell and still not a believer?
He won 4 Grade 1's all on different tracks, the latest after running in all three triple crown races and coming off a two month layoff and winning in good time. That race is a lot better than most think. Throw in a dazzling maiden win on the grass, a super allowance win and a boat load of purse money, what else would anyone want from a 3 year old colt? I'll take one like him everytime.
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May they all come home safely!!!
his rating is way too high in this game, he blows away everyone and when he does lose his sr is always 115-120 even while losing, #'s dont match to his real beyers
But anyway everyone knows that Curlin is now a legend so nothing to say about that.
rudyking.
nope, i just don't like Big Brown. i tend to hold grudges against racehorses. lol i think he's a very fast colt, definitely the fastest of his crop and if we could run him against last year's 3 year olds(at the same age) somehow, i think he'd be competitive, but i truly think he was just born in a good year. i want to see a win against competitive older horses. im not as against him as i was before the Haskell, but I'm still not a fan. lol
i think he is the best colt of the 21st century. he has always domitated in ever race but one. ever horse has one bad race but that race wasnt even his fualt. he was injuryed.
Yeah, I love Big Brown too! I don't know why, but I just do!! He won my heart from the very start, when I first saw him race in the Kentucky Derby. I also praise Kent Desormeaux (my favorite jockey) for how he has ridden Big Brown in his races!
Kayla
My favorite horse, #1 on list, to bad he got injured