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Will the new synthetic racetracks change the way we classify a true champion in its current context?
Yes, as more racetracks move to these surfaces, we will have to consider the best thoroughbreds on those surfaces as champions.
19%
No, a true champion would perform well on any racing surface, thus the meaning of true champion.
58%
Not sure-it will be hard to compare old-time greats to current greats at least from the standpoint of speed and speed ratings.
22%
Total votes: 36
Leaders In BC Divisions
Posted on: Sat, 07/19/2008 - 11:52am
Leaders In BC Divisions
Who do you think are the favorites in each of the 7 original divisions and the F&M Turf minus the Juveniles
Send Some replies.
Here are some of my thoughts.
CLASSIC-If Curlin heads back to the dirt for the Classic he'll dominate and win back-to-back Classics, but if he stays on the grass for the rest of the year watch out for Grasshopper and Divine Park. They are both pointing to next week's Whitney and if either of them win they could become a front-runner in the Classic just as Lawyer Ron did last year.
TURF-Red Rocks is dominant he is the best Turf horse that has raced in America so far. I don't know who the European shippers will be but Red Rocks is just to strong for any American horse. My sleeper though is Grand Corturier he should relish the extra distance in the Sword's Dancerd and BC Turf.
DISTAFF- Ginger Punch is way better than all the California fillies but unfortunatly for her the BC is in California so Zenyatta deserves favorite status. Zenny is good but not good enough to defeat Ginger Punch even on Syn. Ginger Punch is by far the best horse and she will repeat. Lock it in. Sleeper-Music Note
SPRINT-Benny the Bull is the fav. but one horse that will take him on and blow him out of the water is Lucky Island. Winner of the Tom Fool, he is on a crash course with The Bull in the Forego. Lucky Island will win and then his bandwagon will be full, just so you know i'm already on. Sleeper-Abraaj
MILE-Kip Deville is unbeatable in America, too bad there will be a slew of Euros to knock him of his petastool. A euro will win, just don't know which. Sleeper-Thorn Song
F&M TURF-California has all the good Filly Turfers, Lady of Venice, Ventura, Diamond Diva could all win the F&M TURF but one horse that has a shot is Mauralakana, she was terrible last year, but has come on strong and won the NEW YORK S., If she wins the Diana then she'll be the favorite. Sleeper-Rutherienne
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Comments
I can't agree with anything you have stated. But maybe one thing.
If Curlin were to stay for the Classic, yes I think he dominates.
Onto the TURF division...Red Rocks??? Are you kidding me? Sure he ran well in the Man O' War but did you see his form coming into the race? It was terrible. He beat Curlin and Better Talk Now, the rest weren't anything special. Not to mention that Better Talk Now is getting way to old.
How can you forget about EINSTIEN? He is a TURFER...Helen Pitts decided to run him in the Foster because she felt he needed a race after he was banned from running in New York. How do you leave off OUT OF CONTROLL??
Distaff: What you said made me laugh, very hard. I guess you don't know that Zenyatta come over to the EAST COAST and BEAT Ginger Punch at Oaklawn? Zenyatta has done PROVEN that she is BETTER the Ginger Punch.
Sprint: I haven't watched many sprint races, but from what I've seen Benny The Bull will be tough to beat. You have to love how he rates the pace and makes one big move going a sprinting distance. He will be tough to beat, in fact I think he would be one of the locks in the BC races.
Mile: Kip Deville looks to be the best in this division. I don't see anyone beating him, not even any European horses....they don't exactly do well in the Breeders Cup races, so I don't know why you like them so much.
F&M Turf: This also made me laugh. You said California has all the good turfing fillys. Lady of Venice is based on the EAST COAST same thing goes for VENTURA. Dimond Diva is from the West Coast and is a good horse. Don't forget about Pure Clan.
I think you need some more studying on your Breeders Cup races.
Red Rocks' bad form races all came overseas, he is 2/3 on American turf including 2 GI's. He finished 3rd in Bc Turf last year. Einstein is a horse that you never know what your gonna get from him, he threw his jockey in a race last year. He's too unpredictable (he got baned from NY)
Ginger Punch doesn't like Oaklawn 0/3 when i see Zenny take Ginger Punch on in Saratoga then she'll be proven.
Lucky Island will blow Benny out of the water. He turned away Tasteyville in the Tom Fool and a closing threat from Premium Wine to win by 4. We'll see in the Forego.
Achill Island, Excellent Art both hit the Board last year. Pebbles was a flly and still was better than all Americans in the Turf in 1985. Kip was 8-1 in the Mile last year and hasn't faces anyone god yet, when he beats the euros thats when i'll give him credit.
Ventura and Lady of Venice both ran in Cashcall Mile. I think Lady of Venice is better on the West Coast any way. Pure Clan should go back to dirt because the only horse she was losing to died.
We still have a ways to go and a lot of things can happen. I think a couple things should be remembered when looking at this years BC races. They are in sunny So. Cal, and horse kept in cooler places may not do as well and the main oval will be synthetic. With that being said, I think you guys left off a couple runners:
Classic - Big Brown (How soon we forget! Lets see how he comes back in the Haskel)
Turf - Dancing Forever (He can run a little bit)
Distaff - Zenyatta (Undefeated and did knock off the champ by 4+ lenghts) The thing in this race if everyone stays healthy, quite a few like being towards the front (Hystericalady, Ginger Punch, Unbridled belle) and Zenyatta has home filled advantage.
Sprint - Street Boss (more home synthetic advantage!)
Mile - Kip Deville (The real deal)
F&M Turf - Precious Kitten (did she retire or something I don't know about, if not she can run some too)
~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!
I never liked Big Brown and never will. If Curlin stays for the Classic and Big Brown runs in it too, I think Curlin dominates him. This is the weakest 3 year old field we've seen is some 25 years. I don't think any of the horses that ran in this years Derby will make noise down the road.
my issue right now with the BC is with all the east coast horses switching to the poly for the first time....I think as everyone starts to prep for the BC this year a lot is going to change in the month before. I just am uncomfortable with some of these horses from who have yet to take there first footing on this surface.
i think a good race for someone to post would be big brown vs curlin at san anita 1 1/4. in a field with 8 others
1 4-Big Brown -1/2 L - 8:5
2 9-Grasshopper - HEAD - 5
3 2-Casino Drive - 3/4 L - 17
4 6-Curlin - Sh Hd - 2
5 3-Tiago - 3L - 9:2
6 7-Harlem Rocker - 1 1/4 - 21
7 1-Atoned -2 1/4 - 50
8 5-Colonel John - 2 3/4 - 37
9 8-Behindathebar - 50
Time- 2:00.43
Speed rating-110
Big Brown tracked Grasshopper and Casino Drive before taking over near the top of the stretch. Harlem Rocker made a huge move to take the lead mid-stretch before fading. Curlin reached contention mid-stretch but was never a threat.
~~~~~~~~
May they all come home safely!!!
I decided to try it out too:
1 6-Big Brown- 5 L- 6:5
2 7-Curlin- 6 L- 2
3 5-Harlem Rocker- 5 1/4 L- 13
4 1-Colonel John- 1 1/2 L- 29
5 4-Casino Drive- SH L- 13
6 8-Grasshopper- 3 3/4 L- 6
7 9-Pyro- 1 L- 36
8 3-Icabad Crane- 7 1/2 L- 9
9 2-Tale of Ekati- 43
Time-1:59.73
Speed rating-112
Casino Drive shot out for the lead in the start as Big Brown and Curlin trailed 3 lengths behind. Curlin was sitting outside of Big Brown around turn one and at the 5/8ths pole took the lead. Big Brown sat patiently on the rail as Curlin opened up by 3. Down the stretch it was a 2 horse race and Big Brown accelerated to take the lead and drew off easily.
Well no benny now - sweet in 3 years lots of benny babies - alot of boy bulls around. So Indian Blessing to win any sprint race she enters.
Curlin won't run on synth. An if he does what's that prove he can muddle thru it like he did the turf.
Most like Ginger won't run on it either. Appear to me that would be a disaster - Ginger plays in the dirt.
Z won't run on dirt esp vs. Ginger. It all about the CASH for these owners. Seriously if you had a millionare horse would you risk thousands when you don't have too?
The horse for Santa Anita that would crush any field in the BC is Viva Pataca.
We will see alot of shippers from other countries do to the fact that synth stuff still plays like firm turf.
Awesome topic, just had to comment. I'll start tracking other races more avidly as the BC continues to approach, but right now my main pick in any BC race is Einstein. He's got a lot of talent, and if he's on his A-game I think he can outrun any turfer. Of course you always have to keep Better Talk Now in mind, too. He's getting up in age but continues to do well. Well, Einstein's my favorite unless Casino Drive comes back over to run in the Classic. Gotta love that bloodline.
Gotta watch out for both Proud Spell and Music Note in the Distaff division, although Zenyatta is of course the deserving favorite. Although I remember reading that Proud Spell is unlikely to go to the BC. I'm a sucker for the underdog, so will probably be rooting against Zenyatta if someone else I really like shows up, but I love Street Cry as a sire and on top of that she's a half-sister to Balance.
And even though we aren't talking about the babies, I'm watching out for Coronet of a Baron. He looked spectacular in the Best Pal post parade, very muscular and in good shape. He finished 3rd and placed 2nd in that race. Also I have to root for Doremifasolatido. She's done well, although the real reason I root for her is to hear the call. And of course tomorrow are two big two year old races. Let's see who does what in those.